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Now is the Slipper of our discontent . . .

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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

Quite. We're the country with the best economy in the world,
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...418-1x6ac.html
and then Joe Jockey yesterday: "the economy has been mismanaged".
It's just bizarre, how could a man with such a loose grip on reality have risen to such a powerful position??

he doesn't believe a word of it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

Quite. We're the country with the best economy in the world,
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...418-1x6ac.html
and then Joe Jockey yesterday: "the economy has been mismanaged".
It's just bizarre, how could a man with such a loose grip on reality have risen to such a powerful position??

Take away the mining boom though and you might not get such a pretty picture of how poorly we're doing. Retail and tourism are the obvious battlers at the moment. Not to say that this has anything to do with Labor, but there has been some good fortune with the timing of the resources boom and their ability to deliver a surplus (we'll see).
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Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Take away the mining boom though and you might not get such a pretty picture of how poorly we're doing. Retail and tourism are the obvious battlers at the moment. Not to say that this has anything to do with Labor, but there has been some good fortune with the timing of the resources boom and their ability to deliver a surplus (we'll see).

You do understand we are still in the GFC don't you?
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Precisely. So you'd expect us to be doing poorly were it not for the mining boom as well? The best thing the government did then was abandon the super-profits tax, though I doubt that they're going to be boasting about that as one of their achievements.
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Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Take away the mining boom though and you might not get such a pretty picture of how poorly we're doing. Retail and tourism are the obvious battlers at the moment. Not to say that this has anything to do with Labor, but there has been some good fortune with the timing of the resources boom and their ability to deliver a surplus (we'll see).

I can tell you that construction is doing just as badly as retail or tourism...maybe worse. There is demand, but no finance. Banks just arent lending for commercial projects...it doesnt matter how low the interest rates are if you cant get any money out of the banks anyway...

Sydney is still doing alright, but Brisbane and Melbourne have died in the ass...

Now is not the time for the government to be pulling $$$ out of the economy just to get a surplus
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Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

2006 ABS literacy and numeracy survey... the electorate is stupid

Approximately 7 million Australian adults (46 per cent) had literacy scores below the minimum level needed to function fully in life and work

Approximately 7.9 million (53 per cent) had numeracy scores below the minimum needed

doesnt really surprise me.
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Originally Posted by lowkeyandnude View Post

Now is not the time for the government to be pulling $$$ out of the economy just to get a surplus

Swedens finance minister took that approach, and the results were quite interesting:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/77...t-recipe.thtml

Yes yes I realize every economy is different and there is no one size fits all.

As for literacy rates, not sure which obscure report that came from, or how they determined what rate is needed to "function fully in life and work", but the UNDP reports Australia having a 99% literacy rate. Furthermore, I've yet to see any sort of credible study linking literacy rates with left / right voting intentions.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 02-May-12 at 05:35pm

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Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Swedens finance minister took that approach, and the results were quite interesting:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/77...t-recipe.thtml

Um......

lowering taxes to encourage economic growth rather than engaging in larger government spending is still a form of stimulus and essentially does the same thing as increased government spending only it doesn't allow the government to target which areas of the economy get the stimulus effect.

That article was painful to read because the author is clueless.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Swedens finance minister took that approach, and the results were quite interesting:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/77...t-recipe.thtml

Yes yes I realize every economy is different and there is no one size fits all.

As for literacy rates, not sure which obscure report that came from, or how they determined what rate is needed to "function fully in life and work", but the UNDP reports Australia having a 99% literacy rate. Furthermore, I've yet to see any sort of credible study linking literacy rates with left / right voting intentions.

The obscure report was by, as I indicated, the Australian Bureau of Statistics using standardised literary scores. (The Australian Bureau of Statistics 2006 Adult Literacy and Life Skills Survey.) Between 46% and 70% of adults in Australia had poor or very poor skills across one or more of the five skill domains of prose literacy, document literacy, numeracy, problem-solving and health literacy. This means they did not attain skill level 3, the level regarded by most experts as a suitable minimum for coping with the increasing and complex demands of modern life and work.

Not attaining level 3 means you can't meaningfully read a medicine label.

Political researchers know this, they know it from focus groups, and they know it from surveys. And this is why the simplistic rubbish coming out of Abbotts mouth is resonating, although some people on here seem to have literacy levels higher than level 3 but still seem to believe the utter bullshit he and Murdoch press disseminate.

The UN puts us up against the third world.
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So Graham Morris said on Sky News last night that Julia Gillard should be kicked to death, and this has not made the news. I find that sickening.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

2006 ABS literacy and numeracy survey... the electorate is stupid

Approximately 7 million Australian adults (46 per cent) had literacy scores below the minimum level needed to function fully in life and work

Approximately 7.9 million (53 per cent) had numeracy scores below the minimum needed

That's exactly the number of people who voted for labor at the last election
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

The obscure report was by, as I indicated, the Australian Bureau of Statistics using standardised literary scores. (The Australian Bureau of Statistics 2006 Adult Literacy and Life Skills Survey.) Between 46% and 70% of adults in Australia had poor or very poor skills across one or more of the five skill domains of prose literacy, document literacy, numeracy, problem-solving and health literacy. This means they did not attain skill level 3, the level regarded by most experts as a suitable minimum for coping with the increasing and complex demands of modern life and work.

Not attaining level 3 means you can't meaningfully read a medicine label.

Political researchers know this, they know it from focus groups, and they know it from surveys. And this is why the simplistic rubbish coming out of Abbotts mouth is resonating, although some people on here seem to have literacy levels higher than level 3 but still seem to believe the utter bullshit he and Murdoch press disseminate.

The UN puts us up against the third world.

why didn't you say that the survey had a total of 8,900 respondants? You make it sound like it was part of the census
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Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Um......

lowering taxes to encourage economic growth rather than engaging in larger government spending is still a form of stimulus and essentially does the same thing as increased government spending only it doesn't allow the government to target which areas of the economy get the stimulus effect.

That article was painful to read because the author is clueless.

well it's not the same, because government spending on it's own doesn't necessarily encourage investment or entrepreneurship. Longer term, reducing taxes is far more effective if you want to encourage entrepreneurship, risk taking and capital investment which is effectively what creates growth and employment.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Swedens finance minister took that approach, and the results were quite interesting:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/77...t-recipe.thtml

Yes yes I realize every economy is different and there is no one size fits all.

As for literacy rates, not sure which obscure report that came from, or how they determined what rate is needed to "function fully in life and work", but the UNDP reports Australia having a 99% literacy rate. Furthermore, I've yet to see any sort of credible study linking literacy rates with left / right voting intentions.

Cutting taxes isn't pulling money out the economy...its leaving it in the economy...and i agree its a good way of stimulating the economy....problem is you cant then pay people on $150k+ for 30% of their private health insurance!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

So Graham Morris said on Sky News last night that Julia Gillard should be kicked to death, and this has not made the news. I find that sickening.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...430-1xvhi.html
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Um......

lowering taxes to encourage economic growth rather than engaging in larger government spending is still a form of stimulus and essentially does the same thing as increased government spending only it doesn't allow the government to target which areas of the economy get the stimulus effect.

That article was painful to read because the author is clueless.

Maybe sometimes it is a good idea for the government not to be targeting certain areas of the economy with stimulus?
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Buffed.

There was an interesting show on late night live tonight. It noted the head of intel lamenting that the US government had reduced spending on research through the pentagon and NASA over the past 20 years. It was the driver of american military and economic dominance. The government spent the $$$ on research and private companies made $$$ commercializing the results.

20 years ago the US was the number 1 country for manufacturing in the 19 most High tech industries. Now it's numbe 1 in 6 out of the 19. 20 years of small government has led to their demise. They were 1/3rd of the world economy 10 years ago... They are 1/4 today.

Leaving the economy solely to entrepreneurs isn't the answer. They won't invest in things unless they know they can make money.

You only have to look at China, Singapore and South Korea to see what can occur when you have smart governments strategically operating in the economy. In contrast the US has essentially become a wholesaler by leaving it purely to the market.
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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...502-1xyg2.html

It'll be nice to see Pyne on the wrong end of a witch hunt this time
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Abziie View Post

Maybe sometimes it is a good idea for the government not to be targeting certain areas of the economy with stimulus?

Hey I agree with that, sometimes tax breaks are more appropriate than handouts but both are Keynesian approaches to dealing with a slowing economy.

The article is stupid because the author is trying to make out that Finance Minister isn't acting in a Keynesian fashion and also simultaneously claiming that the rest of Europe was trying to use Keynesian methods to correct their crashing economies (fuck it even has a quote of the Finance Minister claiming that Keynesian economics is a stupid idea) when the opposite is true.

Pretty much every endangered economy in Europe went straight for austerity as their plan for curtailing the GFC and it failed horribly. Sweden conservative party instead cut taxes to promote investment and this paid off and helped them weather the worst of it.

As I said you can tell the author is a fuckwit because he can't even tell tax breaks are a form of stimulus and the article just got worse from there.
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That's it is it?

There should be a public furore about this. It's vile.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

why didn't you say that the survey had a total of 8,900 respondants? You make it sound like it was part of the census

No that's your often repeated deep lack of understanding out of which you end up shadowboxing. Nowhere did I even hint it was part of a census. If you think that's all ABS does that's your stupidity not my doing.

An 8900 survey is about 9 times larger than most statistically valid surveys.

You are such a goose buffed.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

That's it is it?

There should be a public furore about this. It's vile.

Of course, but the story would have to last longer than 30 seconds on the nightly news given that no one has probably heard of Grahame Morris. And that, therefore, makes it unsuitable for television.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkeyandnude View Post

You only have to look at China, Singapore and South Korea to see what can occur when you have smart governments strategically operating in the economy. In contrast the US has essentially become a wholesaler by leaving it purely to the market.

China as a "smart government strategically operating the economy" equates to their ability to keep their dollar at artifically low levels to promote exports at the expense of their suffering population under a repressive communist regime. I don't think the comparison is really helpful.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkeyandnude View Post

Buffed.

There was an interesting show on late night live tonight. It noted the head of intel lamenting that the US government had reduced spending on research through the pentagon and NASA over the past 20 years. It was the driver of american military and economic dominance. The government spent the $$$ on research and private companies made $$$ commercializing the results.

20 years ago the US was the number 1 country for manufacturing in the 19 most High tech industries. Now it's numbe 1 in 6 out of the 19. 20 years of small government has led to their demise. They were 1/3rd of the world economy 10 years ago... They are 1/4 today.

Leaving the economy solely to entrepreneurs isn't the answer. They won't invest in things unless they know they can make money.

You only have to look at China, Singapore and South Korea to see what can occur when you have smart governments strategically operating in the economy. In contrast the US has essentially become a wholesaler by leaving it purely to the market.

comparing the U.S to country's where the cost of labor is so much lower is not a valid comparison. 'smart' governing is only part of the story. China went from a highly centralised economy which was essentially broke, to an economic powerhouse simply by opening the economy to entrepreneurs and foreign investment.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

An 8900 survey is about 9 times larger than most statistically valid surveys.

.

it's a survey of 8,000 people. I don't care what statistical validation is used...........to categorically say that 7 million Australians are inumerate illiterate on the back of a survey of 8,000 peple is pure and utter horseshit, no matter how you try and dress it up
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Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkeyandnude View Post

Buffed.

There was an interesting show on late night live tonight. It noted the head of intel lamenting that the US government had reduced spending on research through the pentagon and NASA over the past 20 years. It was the driver of american military and economic dominance. The government spent the $$$ on research and private companies made $$$ commercializing the results.

20 years ago the US was the number 1 country for manufacturing in the 19 most High tech industries. Now it's numbe 1 in 6 out of the 19. 20 years of small government has led to their demise. They were 1/3rd of the world economy 10 years ago... They are 1/4 today.

Leaving the economy solely to entrepreneurs isn't the answer. They won't invest in things unless they know they can make money.

You only have to look at China, Singapore and South Korea to see what can occur when you have smart governments strategically operating in the economy. In contrast the US has essentially become a wholesaler by leaving it purely to the market.

Intel is a really interesting case. Intel is actually a weapons manufacturer. Intel and microsoft drive the military and drive global commerce. Every US weapon has Intel inside.

The core chain
DoD funding -> Intel -> Microsoft -> Web -> e-commerce/Google

The software hardware upgrade loop
Intel -> Microsoft -> Intel -> Microsoft etc

the gaming chain
Intel -> Microsoft -> games -> drones
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Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

China as a "smart government strategically operating the economy" equates to their ability to keep their dollar at artifically low levels to promote exports at the expense of their suffering population under a repressive communist regime. I don't think the comparison is really helpful.

um..no..they do alot more than that!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

it's a survey of 8,000 people. I don't care what statistical validation is used...........to categorically say that 7 million Australians are inumerate illiterate on the back of a survey of 8,000 peple is pure and utter horseshit, no matter how you try and dress it up

I've surveyed 2000 ITM members, 78% of which think you're a troll.

The other 12% could not read the survey.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

it's a survey of 8,000 people. I don't care what statistical validation is used...........to categorically say that 7 million Australians are inumerate illiterate on the back of a survey of 8,000 peple is pure and utter horseshit, no matter how you try and dress it up

And yet polls based on 1000 people can accurately predict elections. Weird huh?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

That's it is it?

There should be a public furore about this. It's vile.

I agree. It's disgusting and I can't beleive you're able to say this stuff on air.

I suppose he's saved by the fact that no-one knows who the fuck he is.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkeyandnude View Post

um..no..they do alot more than that!

Well of course, but a big part of their international competitiveness comes down to cheap labour, cheap manufacturing, and a devalued dollar. If you're talking about America being a wholesaler, well that's precisely why it's cheaper for them to outsource to China and invest in production there. So I would rate the devalued dollar pretty highly in terms of China's ascendancy.

And Portal, benefit of the doubt with that percentage addition there right? Surely...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

I agree. It's disgusting and I can't beleive you're able to say this stuff on air.

I suppose he's saved by the fact that no-one knows who the fuck he is.

nice to be in agreement. I think he's saved by the fact that he said it about Gillard on a Murdoch channel.
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The fact that it was said about Gillard is the main point. The Herald reported it and very mild manner as well.
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Tom Ballard did an awesome piece at the Erotic Fan Fiction event as part of Sydney Writers Festival about Slipper and Ashby. Hilariously NSFW!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

it's a survey of 8,000 people. I don't care what statistical validation is used...........to categorically say that 7 million Australians are inumerate illiterate on the back of a survey of 8,000 peple is pure and utter horseshit, no matter how you try and dress it up



Well done, you've just proved you have no idea how sampling and statistics work.
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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...617-20ibx.html

This is getting quite juicy.

It would be pretty funny if it was all a massive conspiracy to bring down Slipper and potentially the government. Given the Craig Thompson affair and the Slipper case you'd be loving the state of Australian politics at the moment if you were into government (opposition) conspiracies

Brough and Pyne are looking so dodgy as the days go by.
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Brough is a slimy cretin.

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well done sofu, perhaps your most offensive post yet!

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Abbot is lucky he didn't tether himself to this, the way Turnbull did to Gordon Gretch.
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Brough is a slimy cretin.

so's Pyne
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It's a very competitive field
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Payne is just a lapdog to the far right as far as I'm concerned. he doesn't have the ability to orchestrate something like this.

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well done sofu, perhaps your most offensive post yet!

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Pyne's actually seen as a very credible force in the Libs. Kind of a Liberal Faceless Man type. He'd probably be a leadership candidate if he wasn't an Adelaide mincer. He's already proven to be faster than Abbott over 15 metres.

He also personally holds some pretty decent small L liberal ideals. I probably should lay off him.

[he's still a **** though]
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putting shit on Adelaide is now a bannable offence in case you didn't know

yeah, I need to have a think as to why I have that opinion, but I've not seen much from him that I'd consider very bright.

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well done sofu, perhaps your most offensive post yet!

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Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

He's already proven to be faster than Abbott over 15 metres.

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putting shit on Adelaide is now a bannable offence in case you didn't know

yeah, I need to have a think as to why I have that opinion, but I've not seen much from him that I'd consider very bright.

I wasnt really hanging shit on the ADL, just pointing out he's got that accent where he's either a bender or from the Adelaide aristocracy

Yeah I read an article somewhere (good wknd I think) that made me think twice, but then again if he's small L liberal its not showing up in today's parliament
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Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

he's either a bender or from the Adelaide aristocracy

Mind = blown. You're right, he sounds exactly the same as Dolly Downer!
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Downer doesn't sound like Chris Pyne. Downer has been described as sounding like a private school debater (maybe even by Gerard Henderson). Pyne just sounds as whiny and nasal as Pauline Hanson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion

Retail and tourism are the obvious battlers at the moment. Not to say that this has anything to do with Labor, but there has been some good fortune with the timing of the resources boom

That would be caused by:
  • the climbing value of the Australian dollar, caused by the resources boom, making buying goods from overseas retailers much cheaper
  • the climbing value of the AUD making tourism here more expensive
  • booms in small remote cities, due to the resources boom, meaning that accommodation is now more expensive outside of the capitals

You mention that China is canny in keeping its dollar value down but, at the same time, write:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion

The best thing the government did then was abandon the super-profits tax

when such a tax would have curtailed the climb of the dollar sooner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

lowering taxes to encourage economic growth rather than engaging in larger government spending is still a form of stimulus and essentially does the same thing as increased government spending only it doesn't allow the government to target which areas of the economy get the stimulus effect.

If you raise taxes and spend the money, you control not only how money will be spent. You control that it will be spent.

Money taxed is money that won't be lent or go into a financial market. It won't be gambled. It won't be sent abroad. It goes into government revenue.
custaro +

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EeeeeeeJ View Post

Downer doesn't sound like Chris Pyne. Downer has been described as sounding like a private school debater (maybe even by Gerard Henderson). Pyne just sounds as whiny and nasal as Pauline Hanson.

No, there's definitely some plum in the mouth combined with a stick up the ass common ground there.
you're in my hut now
jdoodle +

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have to say he is looking pretty safe, and Mal Brough looks gooooonnneeeeeee, he wont be coming back
steve lewis from news looks like an unbiased reporter.......
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
dAvoZ +

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who is looking safe?
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