Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

why? They are your responsibility. I have no problem if finances are tight and the only way to make ends meet is to use the help, but if passing the kids to the grandparents is a way for you to continue a satisfying career, then that is just plain selfishness and greed IMO.

This.

Off course I'm not talking about a day here and there, the grandparents picking kids up etc, I'm talking about so called parents who dump the kids on granny because there' no way she'll say no and it's cheaper and easier.

Our kids go to a great daycare center, while they are there they do a heap of activities, they learn how to socialize, they get a heap of exercise, their meals are prepared there and it's great food and in my older ones case there is a proper teacher who is preparing her for school, discipline and all, they love it.

IMO this is a way better option than leaving them with grandparents, off course it means we have to bear a huge financial cost and we have to be organised, up at 5am etc but that's the way it is, we want it that way.

While there are loving smart grandparents everywhere who probably do a good job there would also be a heap who park the kids in front of the TV and feed them whatever they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextBestThing

Ask a woman what her hobbies are excluding shopping, facebook/networking with friends. Most will be hard pressed to answer your question.

Many women these days are more focused on impressing their social network, than their own partners. Boyfriends are becoming more like a handbag accessory, chosen on popularity, marketability and financial wealth.

Many women seem to lack the character to take a risk and dedicate their love to something even if it doesn’t work out as they had previously planned; they tend to jump on the bandwagon. They seem to follow short trends, and end up back where they started, lost.

It was once hard to find a man who would commit to provide the security to raise a child, now it’s more a question of if the woman will.

excuse me?!

are you serious?

i am a woman and i hate shopping. i like fishing and being outdoors.
i don't have facebook and only networking i have is work related.

i am furthering my career now and in a year or so i'll be starting a family.

i think your "modern women" hate thread has gone far enough. you can't stamp that stereotype everyone. maybe all the women you have met are as you have described because thats the sort of women you enjoy being around. i know plenty of women who are "having their cake and eating it too" ie. further career and having children. it's hard but its not impossible.

Heh, I doubt buffed supports the notion that women dump their kids at childcare in order to support a satisfying career either.

I just don't see the point of bearing a huge financial cost just to prove, well, what exactly? It's illogical. Don't spend money you shouldn't have to just to feel like you're an honourable person. That's essentially why grandparents exist and don't die not long after middle age. Otherwise, why do we need them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smorchika

...
I mean, what exactly do you want from women already? This is actually incredibly depressing, and i think, as a society, we have not made the leap to equality, and still have a VERY long way to go.
...
I dont understand what is expected of us as a gender anymore, or how we are to fulfill that role.

I'm thinking it's not so much that society hasn't got there, more that it has and now everyone's struggling to figure out where they fit in.

Here and now pretty much everyone gets to decide how they want to live, but we're somewhat blinded by all the options. On top of that so many people are saying what they want, and of course they don't all agree with each other so they're no way you can be what everone wants.

Take some time, figure out what you want to be, then go find those people who can accept and celebrate your decisions. They may not be easy to find, and you'll have plenty of people disagreeing with you but you're the one you have to live with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baax

This.

Off course I'm not talking about a day here and there, the grandparents picking kids up etc, I'm talking about so called parents who dump the kids on granny because there' no way she'll say no and it's cheaper and easier.

Our kids go to a great daycare center, while they are there they do a heap of activities, they learn how to socialize, they get a heap of exercise, their meals are prepared there and it's great food and in my older ones case there is a proper teacher who is preparing her for school, discipline and all, they love it.

IMO this is a way better option than leaving them with grandparents, off course it means we have to bear a huge financial cost and we have to be organised, up at 5am etc but that's the way it is, we want it that way.

While there are loving smart grandparents everywhere who probably do a good job there would also be a heap who park the kids in front of the TV and feed them whatever they want.

baax, in some respect i agree with you.
i agree that it is a parents responsibility to look after their child and raise them as best they can. child care is a good option.

but then at the end of the day, i'd rather my children being looked after by family ie. grandparents. you know what they are doing and that they are being treated as they should. it all comes down to what you have and what your preference is.

unfortunatly not everyone can have the help of their parents. but if possible it is a good thing. if not, well every family situation is different.

while my in-laws will be helping look after my children when i go back to work to help pay the mortgage i still would rather look after them myself. the inlaws would rather know we are all safe and have food to eat than dump us on our butt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot

Heh, I doubt buffed supports the notion that women dump their kids at childcare in order to support a satisfying career either.

?

I don't. As i said, unless it's absolutely essential to maintain a reasonable standard of living, i don't support women going back to work within the first four years after pregnancy. They made a choice to have a child, so give that child your time and attention and raise it in the first few important years.

A friend of mine recently had a child, her partner works and earns a good income. She told me she's itching to go back to work, she needs the 'stimulation'. She's an admin manager, in other words, she does filing and orders stationary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smorchika

IHow they need to be perfect at all times, present as beautiful/feminine/attractive/yada yada, but dont neccessarily have to be intelligent, just cant be boring, or have shaved legs (?).

I mean, what exactly do you want from women already? This is actually incredibly depressing, and i think, as a society, we have not made the leap to equality, and still have a VERY long way to go.

I dont understand what the end game is here? Are women supposed/expected to just be as they were in the 1950s, when they were devoted to homemaking and making their husband happy? Have we as a society come full circle?

.

You can blame your own women's movement for that. Blame the bullshit women's magazines and the millions of retarded women who look up to the Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashians of the world. Men don't buy womens weekly and Cosmo.

The pressure to be attractive again comes from women themselves.

Go out with a group of guys and you will hear them talking about sport, politics, work, chicks, different types of beer etc. The guys will shake hands at the end and look forward to catching up

Go out with a group of women and you will hear them talking about fashion, grooming, reality TV, gawking and criticising other girls for what they wear and how bitchy they are. The girls will end up in a verbal fight, call each other names, not speak to each other for 3 weeks and take the argument to facebook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot

I just don't see the point of bearing a huge financial cost just to prove, well, what exactly? It's illogical. Don't spend money you shouldn't have to just to feel like you're an honourable person. That's essentially why grandparents exist and don't die not long after middle age. Otherwise, why do we need them?

Completely agree. One point that Joe Hockey made recently (holy fuck I agree with something Joe Hockey said) was that ,increasingly, we lack a cohesive family unit that is able to support parents both having children, and returning to the workforce in some capacity. I don't advocate "dumping" a child on grandparent at every opportunity, but to say that doing it regularly is a cop out is absolutely ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Go out with a group of women and you will hear them talking about fashion, grooming, reality TV, gawking and criticising other girls for what they wear and how bitchy they are. The girls will end up in a verbal fight, call each other names, not speak to each other for 3 weeks and take the argument to facebook.

I don't know what the fuck kind of women you hang out with mate, but I have never, ever witnessed something of this sort. On the other hand, I have on occasion hung out with some guys who have the most vapid, irredeemably stupid conversations.

The kind of 'women have only themselves to blame' mentality and criticism on the basis of a perceived notion of shallowness (that applies equally to men, only in a slightly different guise) is ridiculous. I used to wonder why feminist movements still existed, given that opportunity and salary have almost (but not quite) reached some sort of gender equality. Now I guess I know.

Buffed you deride women working as 'admin assistants' on the basis of it being a mindless job. Do you also deride all construction workers, a typically male occupation, on the same basis? I work with a couple of excellent research assistants, do we deride their occupation on the basis that it's pretty much all just pipetting (filing) and ordering PCR arrays (stationary, basically, right)? There's a conflict here: you deride women for having such 'mindless' jobs and liking it, but then you want them to take a minimum of 4 years out of work to have each child. What kind of professional 'worthwhile' job do you suggest they get that allows for 4 or more years of absence in the prime of one's career?

Smorchicka said it pretty well, what exactly do you want from women? Staying home to raise the babies, but also maintaining a standard of intellectualism and a more professional career after? Women should 'know the sacrifice they need to make' to have children but also not be a subservient housewife?

This entire argument is based on a stereotype that, in my view, doesn't even represent a large portion of Australian women. Likewise, shall we have a thread about men needing to get off their arse and be the breadwinner, because we all know the major impediment to women having children is finding a good, providing husband. Why do these damn men want equality in a relationship? They should lower their expectations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane

.
Smorchicka said it pretty well, what exactly do you want from women? Staying home to raise the babies, but also maintaining a standard of intellectualism and a more professional career after? Women should 'know the sacrifice they need to make' to have children but also not be a subservient housewife?

.

Yes those that can afford to should stay home and raise the babies. if you consider women who stay home to raise babies as subservient, then it sounds like you are the one with the problem, not the rest of the society. And that's the issue.......it's peer pressure from other women and the feminist movement that has characterised the woman who stays home to raise children as subservient. Raising children is the most important role any woman can play for her family and for society in general, far more important than filing and taking dicktation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot

Otherwise, why do we need them?

They might have something to say about wanting to live. I'd imagine you will too when you get to that age but if your kids aren't bringing your grandkids around all of a sudden, I'd be very alert and alarmed if I were you.

^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

]
Go out with a group of women and you will hear them talking about fashion, grooming, reality TV, gawking and criticising other girls for what they wear and how bitchy they are. The girls will end up in a verbal fight, call each other names, not speak to each other for 3 weeks and take the argument to facebook.

I'm with Yossarian, I can't relate to this. I'm not saying there aren't groups of women who are like this, but it has rarely been my experience that this comes anyway close to being descriptive of the groups of girls I know, and have known.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah

I'm with Yossarian, I can't relate to this. I'm not saying there aren't groups of women who are like this, but it has rarely been my experience that this comes anyway close to being descriptive of the groups of girls I know, and have known.

c'mon dude, stop bulshitting, they are everywhere.

why do you think reality TV is so successful and women's magazines sell by the hundreds of thousands, not to mention facebook. It's not made up

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Yes those that can afford to should stay home and raise the babies. if you consider women who stay home to raise babies as subservient, then it sounds like you are the one with the problem, not the rest of the society. And that's the issue.......it's peer pressure from other women and the feminist movement that has characterised the woman who stays home to raise children as subservient. Raising children is the most important role any woman can play for her family and for society in general, far more important than filing and taking dicktation.

is it more important than being prime minister?
or the leader of Germany?

buffed, you act like men are some kind of perfect creation which we most definitely arent. men are equally competitive and 'bitchy'...but we express it differently...we have punchups...we smash each other in footy games...and i think you will find we men are responsible for many millions of deaths of innocent women and children through war and in the name of politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Go out with a group of women and you will hear them talking about fashion, grooming, reality TV, gawking and criticising other girls for what they wear and how bitchy they are. The girls will end up in a verbal fight, call each other names, not speak to each other for 3 weeks and take the argument to facebook.

This is why should join the darkside and live in latte-sipping land. You're hanging out with the wrong crowd, dude.

You know you want to, that's why you obsess about we elites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Yes those that can afford to should stay home and raise the babies. if you consider women who stay home to raise babies as subservient, then it sounds like you are the one with the problem, not the rest of the society. And that's the issue.......it's peer pressure from other women and the feminist movement that has characterised the woman who stays home to raise children as subservient. Raising children is the most important role any woman can play for her family and for society in general, far more important than filing and taking dicktation.

Yet you are the one demanding babies or career, not both. I can't understand how that is not expecting that women kowtow to the particular roles you envisage for them, no middle ground. I am perfectly happy for women to stay home and raise their kids. I am perfectly happy for them to pursue their career at the expense of a family. I am also happy for them to strike a balance. That is the key middle ground that you are proposing is impossible, in the face of literally thousands of families who do just that. I may be reading you incorrectly, but you're also deriding women in what you consider low-status jobs (i.e. admin assistants). Again, what kind of professional career do you propose women should pursue, that allows them to meet your standard of taking 4 years off for each child? Do you not think that maintaining a professional career AND raising kids might lead to more "worthwhile" job opportunities?

This is all extremely discordant to me, as I was raised by a single parent mother who was simultaneously one of the first women in Australia to dominate in her field. Not to mention I work with several women who have contributed more to the advancement of society and scientific knowledge than 99.9% of Australia could ever hope to, while simultaneously raising their kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

c'mon dude, stop bulshitting, they are everywhere.

why do you think reality TV is so successful and women's magazines sell by the hundreds of thousands, not to mention facebook. It's not made up

So you're basing your opinion that these women are a significant component of society based in women's magazines and reality tv? Right. Because watching/reading those and leading an intellectually fulfilling lifestyle are mutually exclusive. Nevermind all the men that use facebook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

c'mon dude, stop bulshitting, they are everywhere.

why do you think reality TV is so successful and women's magazines sell by the hundreds of thousands, not to mention facebook. It's not made up

As I said, I'm not saying that what you describe isn't out there but it's not me lived experience: perhaps because I like talking about sport, politics, environmental issues, religion, movies, music, art etc., I have gravitated towards women who are also interested in some, or all, of these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

c'mon dude, stop bulshitting, they are everywhere.

why do you think reality TV is so successful and women's magazines sell by the hundreds of thousands, not to mention facebook. It's not made up

Have you ever stopped to consider that the only thing that all the women you know - who you find are shallow, vapid and bitchy - have in common is you?

As Geezah says, if you look to form friendship and relationships with women capable of holding down a reasonable conversation you'll find them every where. If you only look for slappers, that's all you'll end up meeting.

I missed the part where sport and different types of beer (admittedly two of my most favourite things) became more 'worthwhile' discussion topics than fashion or grooming. Do each not contribute 2/5's of 1/8th of fuck all in terms of what is 'good for society'?

"I would give all my fame for a pot of ale and safety."
-Shakespeare, Henry V

I feel somewhat sorry for women, stay at home and look after the kids and people think you're letting down the sisterhood, have a job and don't have kids and you're letting down the species by not procreating.

Tis a tough one. 25% of my company work on a job share basis, it works really well, allows them lots of time with the kids and they're very proactive.

Companies really should be putting more effort into looking after mums because you get loads back from them. Working mums are much more loyal to companies because in general they're less worried about climbing the corporate ladder - if you make sure they're happy then they're less likely than, say, a Gen Y single to look for new work.
Plus mums who work simply don't have time to run around trying to find a new job. And their time management is fantastic.

I read alot about this FEM but I rarely witness it in my friends, colleagues or candidates. Most people I know want to have happy lives, good jobs and hopefully have a couple of kids, then retire and have enough to live comfortably on.
Maybe I just don't hang out with the right crowds (and I sure as fuck don't hang out with militant feminists) but sometimes I wonder if writers don't come up with concepts just so they have something to write about.

Agreed dubz, job sharing with mothers in my experience as well has worked very well for a range of different roles.

I'll keep banging on about this as long as I post in this thread,it's all about continued contribution into the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

Agreed dubz, job sharing with mothers in my experience as well has worked very well for a range of different roles.

I'll keep banging on about this as long as I post in this thread,it's all about continued contribution into the economy.

Welcome to the dark side Bracko, get comfy.

Of course it all comes down to individuals, some women have kids and lose their work ethic - everything is about the kids and work is there to provide money to spend on the kids and kids kids kids.
But if you pick the right people then you get good results. Same as with anything, some Gen Ys are fantastic, others think they should be CEO within 5 years "just because".

A lot of companies are scared of job sharing, mainly because they're either never tried it or tried it with the wrong people. But increasingly they're seeing the benefits.

Alternatively if a new mum can't come back full time then they'll often return part-time and focus on special projects and the person covering the role gets it permanent.

There's lot of ways that women can "have their cake and eat it" but it really depends on both them and their employer being ok with a bit of give and take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah

They might have something to say about wanting to live. I'd imagine you will too when you get to that age but if your kids aren't bringing your grandkids around all of a sudden, I'd be very alert and alarmed if I were you.

Don't worry, I have big plans for the mental disintegration of my children. Hopefully by the time I'm a geriatric euthanasia will be legal, and I'll do my best to make sure that just as the point of no return has passed for my eventual death, I'll start crying and complaining that I don't actually want to die. Leaving them with an emotional burden for the rest of their lives. It's going to be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot

Don't worry, I have big plans for the mental disintegration of my children. Hopefully by the time I'm a geriatric euthanasia will be legal, and I'll do my best to make sure that just as the point of no return has passed for my eventual death, I'll start crying and complaining that I don't actually want to die. Leaving them with an emotional burden for the rest of their lives. It's going to be great.

Emotional Guilt? Good market that one. Strong growth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane

So you're basing your opinion that these women are a significant component of society based in women's magazines and reality tv? Right. Because watching/reading those and leading an intellectually fulfilling lifestyle are mutually exclusive. Nevermind all the men that use facebook.

they have to be mutually exclusive because anyone that find Kim Kardashian or paris hilton or what liz hurley had for breakfast interesting must be mentally retarded or have stunted intellectual growth. I haven't seen too many male mates who have hissy fits at their male mates on facebook in public view of others.

So before you get all feminist on me, start blaming your own 'sista's' for giving women the black eyes.

If you want to have a child, go for your life, but you shouldn't expect society or your employer or anyone else to make way for your lifestyle choice. At some point you have to make a sacrifice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Have you ever stopped to consider that the only thing that all the women you know - who you find are shallow, vapid and bitchy - have in common is you?

As Geezah says, if you look to form friendship and relationships with women capable of holding down a reasonable conversation you'll find them every where. If you only look for slappers, that's all you'll end up meeting.

I shouldnt have to hang around a library to meet such women.

And the slappers find me........i've got tight buns, chiselled pecs and a strong jawline, it's not my fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

I shouldnt have to hang around a library to meet such women.

And the slappers find me........i've got tight buns, chiselled pecs and a strong jawline, it's not my fault.

buffed the slapper magnet. perfect!

Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane

I don't know what the fuck kind of women you hang out with mate, but I have never, ever witnessed something of this sort. On the other hand, I have on occasion hung out with some guys who have the most vapid, irredeemably stupid conversations.

There’s no need for that, or others labeling women slappers or looking down upon them just because they have different interests to your own e.g. Paris Hilton. You don’t have to like it. They do, and that’s what matters to them.

The girl who is asking: What do you want us to be?
My answer is whatever you want to be.

I just find it surprising that many women were upset when it was announced that there are health risks for women who decide to have children after a certain age.

I just can’t see why these women have such resistance in accepting the limitations of their bodies. If anyone can rationalize it, I’d like to hear it. I feel like I’m missing the other half of the story

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextBestThing

I just find it surprising that many women were upset when it was announced that there are health risks for women who decide to have children after a certain age.

I just can’t see why these women have such resistance in accepting the limitations of their bodies. If anyone can rationalize it, I’d like to hear it. I feel like I’m missing the other half of the story

there are many in their late 30's/early 40's who live in denial.........they know it, but they refuse to accept it because it also means that they move into the 'too old to have children' dating pool and no woman wants that. So they will try to convince anyone that wants to listen that they still have as good a chance at giving birth as a healthy 26 year old

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextBestThing

I just find it surprising that many women were upset when it was announced that there are health risks for women who decide to have children after a certain age.

I just can’t see why these women have such resistance in accepting the limitations of their bodies. If anyone can rationalize it, I’d like to hear it. I feel like I’m missing the other half of the story

Absolutely it is idiotic. But as I previously stated, you're (or maybe not you, just buffed) assuming that this represents a significant majority of women, and tarring them all with the same brush. Going further, we now hear that women cannot possibly 'have their cake and eat it too' despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. No room for compromise, 4 years out of work, no reason for your employer to make any accomodations. And they engage in vapid pursuits, so really who cares. It's a silly position.

Also Buffed, I am a guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane

, we now hear that women cannot possibly 'have their cake and eat it too' despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. No room for compromise, 4 years out of work, no reason for your employer to make any accomodations. And they engage in vapid pursuits, so really who cares. It's a silly position.

Also Buffed, I am a guy.

do you not accept that the chances of having children at 38 or 40 is much lower than 20's or early 30's? If you do, is it then ok for women to seek IVF at the public's expense simply to satisfy their own lifestyle choices?

Also what's stopping the bloke staying home for the rest of those 4 years and the woman going back to work to be the breadwinner - having kids is the choice and responsibility of both parents. There's no reason why the mother has to make all the sacrifice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalgrub

Also what's stopping the bloke staying home for the rest of those 4 years and the woman going back to work to be the breadwinner - having kids is the choice and responsibility of both parents. There's no reason why the mother has to make all the sacrifice.

sure, if the woman has better income potential then go fo it, but that's the exception not the rule. And not too many men i know can breast feed

Obviously once the baby is no longer breastfeeding. And if having better income potential is the exception, it shows that equality in the workforce is still a long way off. (but changing that is a whole other debate)

I went to all day care (could go as late as 5-6 at night when mum would pick us up after she finished work) for a few years before school, I loved it with the few memories I have from it. It was expensive and my parents had a good income so it wouldn't be an option for everyone. Don't see any negatives in it whatsoever. They each worked, we were looked after and had fun, they've been successful.

I believe many women can 'have their cake and eat it too.'

The extremes are:

Complaining there’s not enough time in a day to achieve what they set out to do, blaming external factors that are beyond the
individual’s control.

Setting realistic achievable goals adapted to the current political landscape.

I know which group I prefer to associate with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalgrub

Obviously once the baby is no longer breastfeeding. And if having better income potential is the exception, it shows that equality in the workforce is still a long way off. (but changing that is a whole other debate)

Or could it be that women do have a tendency to choose partners whose income levels exceed their own? If you choose someone based on their income you can't really expect them to give it up the raise kids.

There should be a acronym that describes why Conservatives can't seem to understand what Entitled means.

Entitled/Entitlement =/= Selfish

The article reeks of this

Media Player

YouTube

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextBestThing

I believe many women can 'have their cake and eat it too.'

The extremes are:

Complaining there’s not enough time in a day to achieve what they set out to do, blaming external factors that are beyond the
individual’s control.

Setting realistic achievable goals adapted to the current political landscape.

I know which group I prefer to associate with.

My ex used to complain it was "too much effort to maintain a relationship" and that she wanted to focus on her job rather than her boyfriend (her favourite saying seemed to be "I want to have one's cake and eat it too") . I used to reply with "a relationship shouldn't take effort to maintain and I'll always be supportive of what you do", though that apparently that didn't get through to her so I ended up dumped over facebook.

That being said, she was from Sweden, Kingdom of the militant feminists, so it might have just been her and her friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalgrub

Also what's stopping the bloke staying home for the rest of those 4 years and the woman going back to work to be the breadwinner - having kids is the choice and responsibility of both parents. There's no reason why the mother has to make all the sacrifice.

exactly. it depends if the man would want to give up working to stay home and raise the kids which so many people are saying is a "mothers job".

there is so many people out there telling us, the women, what is expected of us and telling the men what they should expect.
people should start making their own decisions when it comes to family and raising babies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Rainbow

exactly. it depends if the man would want to give up working to stay home and raise the kids which so many people are saying is a "mothers job".

there is so many people out there telling us, the women, what is expected of us and telling the men what they should expect.
people should start making their own decisions when it comes to family and raising babies.

Does your boyfried have breast milk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron

That being said, she was from Sweden, Kingdom of the militant feminists, so it might have just been her and her friends.

She just wasn't that into you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Does your boyfried have breast milk?

Not sure if you are savvy, but it can be expressed, or theres always the option of formula, imho, its a moot point.

And, in regards to your earlier post, women obviously can't be whatever they want to be as you seem to be consciously deriding them for their choice of conversation topics/manner and behaviour.
Whilst i do not agree with that (kind of lifestyle/mentality) you arent really giving a lot of creedence to your claim that women can be whatever they want.
Unless its a conditional claim i.e. they can be whatever they want (as long as its agreeable to buffed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

I don't. As i said, unless it's absolutely essential to maintain a reasonable standard of living, i don't support women going back to work within the first four years after pregnancy. They made a choice to have a child, so give that child your time and attention and raise it in the first few important years.

A friend of mine recently had a child, her partner works and earns a good income. She told me she's itching to go back to work, she needs the 'stimulation'. She's an admin manager, in other words, she does filing and orders stationary.

kids need a day a week at least if not more in order to learn important social interaction skills to prepare them for school from about 2 onwards.

Also most people in Australia would struggle to afford having kids on single incomes due to the artifical housing market, so in order to fix the housing market, I am sure you would all support abolishing or phasing out negative gearing on housing yeah?

Personally as a horny young guy I wouldn’t drop a girl that I considered relationship material over work commitments. Regular sex with women I find attractive is my main motivation for working.

If I could collect the dole and was 100% guaranteed regular sex with attractive women , I’d do that and focus more on my passion, which pays very little if at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoodle

Also most people in Australia would struggle to afford having kids on single incomes due to the artifical housing market, so in order to fix the housing market, I am sure you would all support abolishing or phasing out negative gearing on housing yeah?

bullshit. when i see women dropping off toddlers to daycare in their Audi Q7, money clearly isn't the issue.

what does that even mean?

Logic, buffed style.

he has reversed his position on dough in this thread lol
either people can afford to have children or they cannot

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoodle

what does that even mean?

it means that there are women out there who are more interested in pursuing their career than raising their kids properly