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The Great Fairfax Massacre of 2012

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Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de View Post

I heard this morning that Gina is wanting 3 seats now. Which makes sense considering how much of a fat ****hole she is.

Cmon, that's a bit rough. She's a true blue Aussie hero worth her weight* in gold. She doesn't deserve that sort of talk.


*329 Metric Tons to be specific.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by sneaky hands View Post

Given Rolf Dobelli's background, i'd say his estimate is based on research rather than him sticking a thumb in the air.

you'd say, or you don't have time to authenticate his claim?

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Originally Posted by jarrardscott View Post

well, according to dictionary.com
chilli is hot pepper food etc.
chilly is cold temperature.

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Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

I could see that. Without wanting to appear humourless at this point I'd just like to note that we always criticise our MPs for a lack of talent, and while I have experienced his truly megalomaniacal tendencies, having a foreign minister who can speak fluent Mandarin is what we would prefer isn't it?.

Eh, old or not, I still like the joke. It's no pay out on Penny Wong - I could give a rat's arse that she's a lesbian. It's Rudd's desire to be like her that amused me, especially as their hair cuts looked similar, once upon a time.

That aside, no, I would rather a PM or foreign minister who was a talented minister that relied on a translator than a fucking **** of a micromanager who ran the Department of PM&C by fiat and turned it from a functioning place into an area that is devoid of process.

Or to put it another way - yes, we want talented MPs. But talented in making policy or being a PM. Speaking the language, for mine, is secondary.

And I still like that joke, old or not
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Quote:

Originally Posted by rancho View Post

you'd say, or you don't have time to authenticate his claim?

What's your point? You dispute his estimates? Or you're trying to suggest he's a hypocrite?

If it's the former, my world view matches his claims so I'm not likely to seek authentication (yes confirmation bias at its worst but it saves time and anyway a quick glance at theage.com.au confirms this bias every time). If its the latter, ad hominem attacks (completely unsupported by any evidence in this case) are irrelevant when discussing the ideas presented in the article, regardless of how often they are used on this forum.
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to be honest, i read the prologue and decided i was too deeply in it to get out of the trap so started skimming through it (thinking 'hey, i'll prove you wrong, you arrogant twat') and thought that bit was hilarious. oh and also hypercritical.

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Originally Posted by jarrardscott View Post

well, according to dictionary.com
chilli is hot pepper food etc.
chilly is cold temperature.

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Fair enough. When I started reading that article i completely disagreed with the premise (same as you pretty much) but by the end of it he had me convinced enough to give it a try. It's now been about six months and i can definitely say it's been a good move - every time i accidentally turn on the TV news or see the front page of a newspaper it confirms it further for me.
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i haven't watched tv news in years, i went from 05 to maybe 18 months ago without having a tv in the house, but i got some bunny ears to watch sports when my housemate bought a 40" lcd.

but i still flick to mainstream news websites when im bored at work for a laugh, and no holier than thou article will take that away from me.

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Originally Posted by jarrardscott View Post

well, according to dictionary.com
chilli is hot pepper food etc.
chilly is cold temperature.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rancho View Post

but i still flick to mainstream news websites when im bored at work for a laugh, and no holier than thou article will take that away from me.

I flick to ITM, but it's just a matter of choosing your poison really.
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we need another Keating

When Rudd was PM Gillard used to come out with some absolute classics

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well done sofu, perhaps your most offensive post yet!

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Had a good laugh this morning, Gina's moves made the news here, CNN international showed a terrible picture of her, head back double chins and mouth wide open.
Said something along the lines of "This is the richest woman in the world, she is trying to buy her way into the Australian papers to buy her own publicity."

BBC World was the best, "What do you do when you're the richest woman in the world? Well it appears that you complain about tax and buy a paper to push your own agenda." Followed by news story pretty much painting her as a sooky la la.

I usually hate watching the BBC (should have heard them taking swipes at Swan when he was gloating about the economy, "Here's Australia boasting again, yes yes we know you are doing fine etc) but I did get a good chuckle out of the shit they hung on Jabba the Rinehart.
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I have a real problem with politicians taking the moral high ground on media ownership and influence when it's politicians who will lie, cheat, misrepresent and distort in order to stay in power or get into power. It really is difficult to swallow when wayne swan delivers a sermon on the issue. Take away parliamentary priviledge, take away such easy access to the media and what have you got? It actually sickens me when politicians of any pursuasion complain about media bias. further, we have TPA legislation which regulates misrepresentation to protect consumers, yet politicians are alowed to misrepresent every day of the week really don't get it.........the assumption that politicians are somehow more responsible/respectable than the average person is a real problem with the perceived democracy we live in

Last edited by buffed: 19-Jun-12 at 09:08pm

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I see that the Age has now run a second article in which John Singleton calls for Rinehart to use her shareholding to exert influence on editorial content. I once had a teacher who enthused over the day that he could elect John Singleton as President of Australia. I don't know why a school teacher would have as an ideal using your immense wealth to suppress communication that doesn't suit your interests.

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''Go through the history,'' Singleton begins. ''I met Gina when she was a little girl, when she was with her dad [the mining magnate Lang Hancock]. She's making her dad's dreams come true.''

Hancock felt he struggled to have his voice heard in the corridors of power, Singleton argues, particularly with the West Australian government. ... ''They opened their own paper in Perth, called The Independent ... to get their view across

http://www.theage.com.au/business/do...601-1znbs.html

Taking over Fairfax isn't quite analogous to creating your own newspaper or starting your own Rugby League. Hancock and Packer created something new. Singleton is calling on Rinehart to take away something that has existed for decades.
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"What the situation really calls for is a deliberately offensive cartoon showing Rinehart as a Hutt in a wig, Tony Abbott as "Slave Leia" and some other right-wing lickarse as that pet creature of Jabba's"

This better be in a newspaper tomorrow.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Abziie View Post

is it because women who have a different outlook, are in competition and who don't like each other tend to be more civil than men?

Possibly. I'm not quite sure. I'm not even sure if that view isn't in itself a form of sexism, a manifestation of my own attraction to the warm feminity of women. I suppose we would do best out of a group of politicians who put their own interests behind the interests of those they represent, but I suspect that is somewhat oxymoronic.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

I have a real problem with politicians taking the moral high ground on media ownership and influence when it's politicians who will lie, cheat, misrepresent and distort in order to stay in power or get into power. It really is difficult to swallow when wayne swan delivers a sermon on the issue. Take away parliamentary priviledge, take away such easy access to the media and what have you got? It actually sickens me when politicians of any pursuasion complain about media bias. further, we have TPA legislation which regulates misrepresentation to protect consumers, yet politicians are alowed to misrepresent every day of the week really don't get it.........the assumption that politicians are somehow more responsible/respectable than the average person is a real problem with the perceived democracy we live in

You make a valid point. but while that might make them hypocritical, it doesn't make their position inherently wrong. I want an independent media. I want a media that will out a politician and will out a business person on the basis of universal ethics not party political agendas. I think an independent media is a cornerstone of democracy and freedom.

If the media is completely dominated by commercial interests you end up with News of The World. No one wants that. Who could possibly want that?

Does Rinehart really need to control the media to succeed? How much richest woman in the world-ness does she actually need? She's an insatiable alien leech. A human fluke worm. An engorged mega-tick rampant with cellulitic catastrpohe. Something even science fiction writers struggle to concieve. She's the Blob. Because she is real, and we let her suck the humanity out of our country.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de View Post

I heard this morning that Gina is wanting 3 seats now. Which makes sense considering how much of a fat ****hole she is.

1 seat for each cheek and an ottoman for her gut IMO
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

She's an insatiable alien leech. A human fluke worm. An engorged mega-tick rampant with cellulitic catastrpohe. Something even science fiction writers struggle to concieve. She's the Blob. Because she is real, and we let her suck the humanity out of our country.

man, that was brilliant.

For me when weighing up government intervention v private interests controlling mass media i tend to think government intervention is best avoided. Fairfax already has an editorial direction that (i assume) is set by the board. The situation hasn't changed. Any move by the government to control it would not only set a bad precedent but would probably have the usual unintended consequences that require further intervention to control, enlarging the state further.

You'd have to living under a rock to know that there is potential for Fairfax to change direction in terms of editorial content at this point. Certainly all their readers will. It's not like they will slowly become brainwashed - if and when it changes and they perceive the change, they will either stick around because they have no problem with it, or switch to another news source.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by sneaky hands View Post


You'd have to living under a rock to know that there is potential for Fairfax to change direction in terms of editorial content at this point.

About that, the share price rose after the announcement of the restructuring, then the announcement that Hutt Holdings had attained 18% of Fairfax, and nothing, and then the public release of the letter from editorial staff at Fairfax requesting that she would not interfere with editorial independence, and then the share price dropped as if it wasn't abundantly clear before that she bought big in Fairfax so she could have her own version of News Limited.
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Other factors could also have driven the decline after the letter. The prevailing view among many investors is that the restructure probably won't solve Fairfax's problems, so many after some post-announcement excitement the reality set in and the price was bid back down.

My read on the share price decline is that the letter raises the prospect of disunity and low engagement within the company, further damaging its financial performance. This uncertainty probably caused a few investors who jumped in post-restructure to try to jump back out.
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heard someone ask last night... what if she's only buying into Fairfax to destroy it?

it's not going to bankrupt her. And shifting the media to the right could potentially make back her loss in the coming years of the Abbott Govt
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It's possible but if so she's only hastening the unavoidable. Fairfax desperately needs new sources of revenue or the company will slowly decline in size regardless of her involvement. The restructure announcement did not solve this problem.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

She's an insatiable alien leech. A human fluke worm. An engorged mega-tick rampant with cellulitic catastrpohe. Something even science fiction writers struggle to concieve. She's the Blob. Because she is real, and we let her suck the humanity out of our country.

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I had that exact episode in mind.
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Good article by Malcolm Turnbull in today's SMH.

Also, good panel discussion below moderated by Barry Cassidy, with Hartcher, Crabb, Harris, Megalogenis, and Turnbull all making interesting point about the media, news and politics.

It's about 55 mins long, but worth it.

"Can't be that hard: Politics and the Media Landscape."

http://www.themonthly.com.au/video
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gotta love the rightards posting on news ltd website. the basic arguement is that Fairfax is losing money and readership because they represent "left wing bias"...ironic then, that news ltd announces a reduction of its eastern seaboard divisions to 25% of its current size
presumably because what they write is "right wing bias" that drives away readership?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Good article by Malcolm Turnbull in today's SMH.

Also, good panel discussion below moderated by Barry Cassidy, with Hartcher, Crabb, Harris, Megalogenis, and Turnbull all making interesting point about the media, news and politics.

It's about 55 mins long, but worth it.

"Can't be that hard: Politics and the Media Landscape."

http://www.themonthly.com.au/video

saw that live, was very good

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Dont bother arguing with Big Eddie Deepchild.

He doesnt grasp the logic behind helping people less fortunate than himself.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

You make a valid point. but while that might make them hypocritical, it doesn't make their position inherently wrong. I want an independent media. I want a media that will out a politician and will out a business person on the basis of universal ethics not party political agendas. I think an independent media is a cornerstone of democracy and freedom.

If the media is completely dominated by commercial interests you end up with News of The World. No one wants that. Who could possibly want that?

Does Rinehart really need to control the media to succeed? How much richest woman in the world-ness does she actually need? She's an insatiable alien leech. A human fluke worm. An engorged mega-tick rampant with cellulitic catastrpohe. Something even science fiction writers struggle to concieve. She's the Blob. Because she is real, and we let her suck the humanity out of our country.

I don't think buying editorial coment is good for anyone, but it's hard for politicians to proffer themselves as the gatekeepers of a free media, when they are probably the worst perpetrators of propaganda
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Sadly, that Jon Kudelka cartoon is from 2008

https://twitter.com/jonkudelka/statu...220673/photo/1
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

I don't think buying editorial coment is good for anyone, but it's hard for politicians to proffer themselves as the gatekeepers of a free media, when they are probably the worst perpetrators of propaganda

Who cares what pollies think, surely it's voters and consumers and the people who act ethically in public and private organisations that suffer from dissipated platforms for quality journalism.
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I don't think buying editorial coment is good for anyone, but it's hard for politicians to proffer themselves as the gatekeepers of a free media, when they are probably the worst perpetrators of propaganda

Which they are not doing. They are quite specifically saying they are not the gatekeepers of free media.
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Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Which they are not doing. They are quite specifically saying they are not the gatekeepers of free media.

Have the coalition linked not being gatekeepers of free media to the carbon tax yet?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

I don't think buying editorial coment is good for anyone, but it's hard for politicians to proffer themselves as the gatekeepers of a free media, when they are probably the worst perpetrators of propaganda

It's absolutely hypocritical. However it's still quite correct.

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It's the same as going out on a busy street and looking at the people around you, most of them are fgts.

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Declining standards in journalism already apparent at Fairfax:

Father excused
Lat
June 21, 2012

A Texas grand jury has ruled that a father who beat to death a man he reportedly caught molesting his five-year-old daughter will not be charged in connection with the attack. A district court clerk said the Lavaca County grand jury met on Tuesday and declined to return an indictment against the father in the June 9 death of 47-year-old Jesus Mora Flores of Gonzalez, Texas.

The attack happened at a

horse barn.


LAT



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/father-e...#ixzz1yLFmg6wW
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Quote:

Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

heard someone ask last night... what if she's only buying into Fairfax to destroy it?

it's not going to bankrupt her. And shifting the media to the right could potentially make back her loss in the coming years of the Abbott Govt

This is very much the case in my opinion, she will try to force the newspaper to the far right and if it fails, why the hell does she care? She hasn't really lost anything.

It isn't even about money, its about power and the Mining Corporations are at their best now with News Corp to try turn Australia into a Corporatocracy and if Fairfax falls in either way, to the right wing bias or to bankrupcy, it will give put complete control in the hands of Corporate interests to start playing the puppet master.

When Swan says that Democracy is under threat, I don't take it lightly and an overstatement like most people have, Crap rags like The Daily Telegraph and complete ignorant asswipes like Andrew Bolt already have huge sway over the views of the majority of Australians, the last thing Australia needs is another Telegraph to pick and choose who can play Parliament.
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I blame Amelie Lolliker for beginning Fairfax's downward spiral.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Who cares what pollies think, surely it's voters and consumers and the people who act ethically in public and private organisations that suffer from dissipated platforms for quality journalism.

quality and journalism are not things i use in the same sentence.

Let's face it, people are so much more connected to what's ging on around them these days that the print media has become somewhat redundant, other than as a from of light entertainment for most, so i'm not sure why the big hullabaloo made over it. with so much information out there and so many ways of getting it, we are engaging in a debate that was probably an issue about 30 years ago, but its relevance is fast declining. Fairfax will just become another of the thousands of online news sources that people will consume.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

quality and journalism are not things i use in the same sentence.

Let's face it, people are so much more connected to what's ging on around them these days that the print media has become somewhat redundant, other than as a from of light entertainment for most, so i'm not sure why the big hullabaloo made over it. with so much information out there and so many ways of getting it, we are engaging in a debate that was probably an issue about 30 years ago, but its relevance is fast declining. Fairfax will just become another of the thousands of online news sources that people will consume.

I think you underestimate and under-appreciate the good investigative journalism that happens all the time due to your cynicism. There is shit, Britney-shows-her-flange type crap out there but there is also the HSU and WBA quality investigative stuff as well. Bloggers might be able to do the Britney Lohan crap but they won't be able to bring-to-light the important stuff other than by fluke. Which means a lot of important issues and situations won't get the public attention they deserve.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

quality and journalism are not things i use in the same sentence.

Let's face it, people are so much more connected to what's ging on around them these days that the print media has become somewhat redundant, other than as a from of light entertainment for most, so i'm not sure why the big hullabaloo made over it. with so much information out there and so many ways of getting it, we are engaging in a debate that was probably an issue about 30 years ago, but its relevance is fast declining. Fairfax will just become another of the thousands of online news sources that people will consume.

so if independent journalism disappears who is going to tell us what's going on... the government? large corporations?

because they both have such a vested moral interest in telling the truth.....

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well done sofu, perhaps your most offensive post yet!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

quality and journalism are not things i use in the same sentence.

Let's face it, people are so much more connected to what's ging on around them these days that the print media has become somewhat redundant, other than as a from of light entertainment for most, so i'm not sure why the big hullabaloo made over it. with so much information out there and so many ways of getting it, we are engaging in a debate that was probably an issue about 30 years ago, but its relevance is fast declining. Fairfax will just become another of the thousands of online news sources that people will consume.

You think news writes itself?

All that information you receive is garnered 9 times out of 10 by a journalist somewhere in the world. These people need to be paid. You ain't gonna get any Sydney/Australian news from reporters in the US or Europe are you? 1000 news sites? Really? Most people have a few ports of call for their information, they don't like to actively search for it, they like it to be brought to them.

Print media sets the agenda. Most talking points on radio and many stories on TV are pieces following reports laid out in the morning paper. Try reading news sources like Time for varied and extremely interesting information. I don't think there's any way you could read that regularly with your comment.
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Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

We need another Keating.

We need another government-mandated Ponzi retirement saving scheme with perpetual high fees, below-inflation investment returns and unaccountable financial "managers".
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Quote:

Originally Posted by walkdogz View Post

You think news writes itself?

Would it be possible to use historical news articles, have a smart bot re-jig the stuff into newly arranged but similar articles, construct them into a news-style paper, print them and have people buy the paper because they think that it actually represents current news?

I live in one suburb, go to work and back home. I have little time or suspicion to check what happens outside my 10km x 10km of reality. Could one undermine the people by slowly moving to such process and actually disconnect society from reality?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

I think you underestimate and under-appreciate the good investigative journalism that happens all the time due to your cynicism. There is shit, Britney-shows-her-flange type crap out there but there is also the HSU and WBA quality investigative stuff as well. Bloggers might be able to do the Britney Lohan crap but they won't be able to bring-to-light the important stuff other than by fluke. Which means a lot of important issues and situations won't get the public attention they deserve.

i undervalue the print media. these days, it's a dinosaur and becoming extinct. when was the last time anything major was cracked by the print media? The general populace is far more educated, far more cynical of government and far more informed........the days of needing print journalism to expose or investigate is gone. print journalism has become nothing more than editorial comment, tabloid and 'every-day' stories. it's not much more than a form of ight entertainment.
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Craig Thompson affair
AWB bribery scandal
News corp phone hacking scandal

That's three off the top of my head.

Try reading something other than the Daily Telegraph and you might find some worthwhile journalism buffed.

Last edited by custaro: 23-Jun-12 at 01:50pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

i undervalue the print media. these days, it's a dinosaur and becoming extinct. when was the last time anything major was cracked by the print media? The general populace is far more educated, far more cynical of government and far more informed........the days of needing print journalism to expose or investigate is gone. print journalism has become nothing more than editorial comment, tabloid and 'every-day' stories. it's not much more than a form of ight entertainment.

Wow. You really have no idea.
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Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

One for each cheek?

I'd say one for each chin but then she'd need at least 8.
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Fairfax is massacring Gina Rinehart now, or rather Fairfax editorial staff is.
Three days of top billed stories and excerpts from a book about her
http://www.smh.com.au/national/iron-...623-20uup.html
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

Fairfax is massacring Gina Rinehart now, or rather Fairfax editorial staff is.
Three days of top billed stories and excerpts from a book about her
http://www.smh.com.au/national/iron-...623-20uup.html

Crash through or crash. My favorite strategy. Go hard.
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the editors of the SMH and the AGE have stood down
http://www.smh.com.au/business/media...625-20xlj.html

wonder if they are considering doing their own thing, worked for alan kohler until he sold out to news this week

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Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Dont bother arguing with Big Eddie Deepchild.

He doesnt grasp the logic behind helping people less fortunate than himself.

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