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Poll: Your thoughts on Boat People

View Poll Results: Do you care about Boat People.
Yes, it's an issue. I prefer Labor Party. 7 14.29%
No, couldn't care less. I prefer Labor Party. 7 14.29%
Yes, it's an issue. I prefer Coalition. 4 8.16%
No, couldn't care less. I prefer Coalition. 1 2.04%
"boat people" are a non-issue overblown by xenophobic bullshit 30 61.22%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Derelict +

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smorchika View Post

I gotta admit, i was hoping travel would give you some perspective and help make you more compassionate and open minded, seems not, and that is very disappointing.

If anything it's the opposite. So many beggars and scam artists and just general worthless scum everywhere over there, not contributing to society. Sorry if I feel that people who come to Australia should pull their weight. I certainly know that my grand parents did when they emigrated here.
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Asylum Seekers do 'pull their weight' and there are countless articles that suggest that immigration is one key to a successful.economy.

However as far as i can tell, that is not your problem against them? It seems to be auxiliary to the fact that you simply dont think they should be allowed in?

Did you stop and ask yourself why people do those kinds of things?
And have you ever thought, perhaps, because we are such a wealthy nation, we are in the best possible position to share with and care for people in desperate need?

P.S in all your time away did it cross your mind how fortunate you are to be Australian and how fortunate you are to have the luck of being born here, where you have so many chances to make somethibg of yourself? And that one of your privileges as an Australian is to be able to see any part of the world with minimal hassle? Let alone being in a country where you can make that kind of income to do that?

Last edited by smorchika: 15-Sep-13 at 09:23am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

If anything it's the opposite. So many beggars and scam artists and just general worthless scum everywhere over there, not contributing to society. Sorry if I feel that people who come to Australia should pull their weight. I certainly know that my grand parents did when they emigrated here.

There are many bogans and worthless scum in Australia as well.

Out of interest, did your grand parents seek asylum here, or did they arrive with immigration visas?
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are the ones begging on the street really the ones that seek asylum in australia though?
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...927-2uhgo.html

Bishops claiming that talks had been "very cordial", "positive and very productive". Yet Indonesias Foreign Minister is in disagreeance stating they feel their sovereignty is being threatened and suggesting that the two countries start from scratch in formulating new asylum seeker policies, saying they should perform a “stocktake” of areas of common interest and then develop a “blueprint or road-map” for ways forward.

This is a much better approach than Coalitions bullying policy where they are making "Indonesia the cornerstone of their assylum seeker policies". They obviously need to rethink and work with them. If you want to run policy out of their country its in their hands, not ours.

Theyre absolutely ruining the relationship between Australian and Indonesia, Its beyond a joke how incompetent they are!

The biggest joke is Abbott claiming the relationship had been trashed by labor when Indonesia is CLEARLY stating that the new government are the problem (stating theyre offended by Coalitions policies)

Heck Downers been going crazy straight out accusing Indonesia of everything.
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Can you tone down the hyperbole? It's going to be a fucking long, long 3 (or 6) years if every time something happens where you or someone else doesn't see eye to eye with the Coalition we're subjected to yet another rant of you whining and puling about how the Coalition are 'ruining the country'.

It's not even close to ruining the relationship with Indonesia. They're upset about a lack of consultation and they're right, it IS illegal to stop boats in international waters without due cause.

The entire article is littered with phrases like 'we're going to work with the Indonesians' 'we respect their sovereignty' and so forth.

Abbott wasn't blaming Indonesia for anything, the blame, such as it is, he puts on Rudd & Gillard.

Further, you can have a 'cordial and productive' meeting without being in agreement with each other.
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I honestly think theyre doing an absolute terrible job at this particular issue but fair enough, i'll tone it down. It would get annoying if i kept it up, apologies.

Fair enough on cordial and productive but Positive? Theyre obviously at odds on that issue.

I wasnt claiming Abbott was blaming Indonesia directly, Downers pretty much is though. Its more of their actions, statements, the way theyre going about things. It's becoming more and more apparant they were trying to twist Indonesias rhetoric arm into agreeing with their Assylum Seeker Policy and trying to keep it quiet yet Indonesia aren't have a bar of it.

I hope they do take the steps suggested by the Indonesian Foreign Minister and start from scratch and work on a new policy together rather than trying to convince each other to take your own approach which won't work.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

Can you tone down the hyperbole? It's going to be a fucking long, long 3 (or 6) years if every time something happens where you or someone else doesn't see eye to eye with the Coalition we're subjected to yet another rant of you whining and puling about how the Coalition are 'ruining the country'.

It's not even close to ruining the relationship with Indonesia. They're upset about a lack of consultation and they're right, it IS illegal to stop boats in international waters without due cause.

The entire article is littered with phrases like 'we're going to work with the Indonesians' 'we respect their sovereignty' and so forth.

Abbott wasn't blaming Indonesia for anything, the blame, such as it is, he puts on Rudd & Gillard.

Further, you can have a 'cordial and productive' meeting without being in agreement with each other.

you actually read jarrards rants?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

Can you tone down the hyperbole? It's going to be a fucking long, long 3 (or 6) years if every time something happens where you or someone else doesn't see eye to eye with the Coalition we're subjected to yet another rant of you whining and puling about how the Coalition are 'ruining the country'.

It's not even close to ruining the relationship with Indonesia. They're upset about a lack of consultation and they're right, it IS illegal to stop boats in international waters without due cause.

The entire article is littered with phrases like 'we're going to work with the Indonesians' 'we respect their sovereignty' and so forth.

Abbott wasn't blaming Indonesia for anything, the blame, such as it is, he puts on Rudd & Gillard.

Further, you can have a 'cordial and productive' meeting without being in agreement with each other.

I agree with you, but by the same token the government is clearly in a position where they can't politically implement their election promise. In my opinion this is something that the Abbott government is going to run up against in a number of areas, because their policy platforms in many areas are difficult to implement at best. This is the oucome of running a fictional election campaign. And it seems to me that part of the reason for Abbott pulling in control of the media interactions of other ministers is to a greater or lesser extent for that reason.
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Boats?! What boats?! There are no boats entering the country. Shhhhhh!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrardscott View Post

I honestly think theyre doing an absolute terrible job at this particular issue but fair enough, i'll tone it down. It would get annoying if i kept it up, apologies.

Fair enough on cordial and productive but Positive? Theyre obviously at odds on that issue.

I wasnt claiming Abbott was blaming Indonesia directly, Downers pretty much is though. Its more of their actions, statements, the way theyre going about things. It's becoming more and more apparant they were trying to twist Indonesias rhetoric arm into agreeing with their Assylum Seeker Policy and trying to keep it quiet yet Indonesia aren't have a bar of it.

I hope they do take the steps suggested by the Indonesian Foreign Minister and start from scratch and work on a new policy together rather than trying to convince each other to take your own approach which won't work.

Thanks.

They can be at odds with each other, but still walk away from the meeting going 'actually yeah, I can work with that person' - that's the 'positive' that they're referring to.

Downer is just taking a potshot back at Indonesia - he's flat wrong, they're not doing anything to our sovereignty at all, but he's able to be shrill in a manner that a current government is not.

I don't really have a problem with the Abbot government trying to twist Indonesia's arm a bit. They fucking need it, otherwise nothing happens. While asylum seekers are free to come here under agreed-to policy, we are consistently finding and turning back Indonesian fishermen who totally openly fish in Australian waters. It's a different issue, but unless you apply some sort of pressure to the Indonesian government, they do very little to control their citizens off their own bat.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

I agree with you, but by the same token the government is clearly in a position where they can't politically implement their election promise. In my opinion this is something that the Abbott government is going to run up against in a number of areas, because their policy platforms in many areas are difficult to implement at best. This is the oucome of running a fictional election campaign. And it seems to me that part of the reason for Abbott pulling in control of the media interactions of other ministers is to a greater or lesser extent for that reason.

Yeah, fair enough. They'll come to some sort of arrangement though, it's almost certain. Sure, it's illegal to stop a boat on the high seas and to turn it back without a legal reason, but stopping a boat in Australian waters and preventing it from entering the country isn't.

Indonesia will talk tough about control and will strongly condemn being strong-armed without consultation. With consultation, though, they will end up agreeing to some sort of quid pro quo, I'm sure. I don't know what it is that they want but they will want something
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

they do very little to control their citizens off their own bat.

that we know of.

Perhaps they do but obviously cant stop all of it.
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No, we know it. They have limited desire and less ability.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

Yeah, fair enough. They'll come to some sort of arrangement though, it's almost certain. Sure, it's illegal to stop a boat on the high seas and to turn it back without a legal reason, but stopping a boat in Australian waters and preventing it from entering the country isn't.

Indonesia will talk tough about control and will strongly condemn being strong-armed without consultation. With consultation, though, they will end up agreeing to some sort of quid pro quo, I'm sure. I don't know what it is that they want but they will want something

Yeah but Australian waters is 12 nautical miles - migration issues are not covered by the exclusive economic zone.

The navy intercept the boats well outside of that.

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Originally Posted by big eddie View Post

Yeah but Australian waters is 12 nautical miles - migration issues are not covered by the exclusive economic zone.

The navy intercept the boats well outside of that.

Yes, I'm aware. That's why I said that it's an issue and Indonesia are right to level complaints at us for it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

Downer is just taking a potshot back at Indonesia - he's flat wrong, they're not doing anything to our sovereignty at all, but he's able to be shrill in a manner that a current government is not.

Being in government never stopped Downer being shrill. Or being the general asshole that he is.
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Quite true. It's why the Abbott Government has been asked if they endorse or repudiate his comments, too.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangoriously View Post

Quite true. It's why the Abbott Government has been asked if they endorse or repudiate his comments, too.

I think it's a tactic to allow the government to say they are not being as inflammatory as they have the right to be.
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Of course.
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Did anyone watch Dateline last night?

Christ almighty these folks have a hide, laying the blame entirely on the Australian government for the deaths of those on board a boat which capsized just 50 meters (not kilometres) from the shore in Java, Indonesia. The mentality is mind boggling.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 02-Oct-13 at 01:44pm

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