[djnelsy]

Does anyone know what are the best studio monitors for their value?

I am about to buy myself some monitors and from the reviews I have read if I went out right now I would pick up the Behringer 'Truths' for about 1k the pair.

Does anyone have any tips to throw my way? Cuz when listening to each pair in the store it's seriously hard to distinguish the difference...

Appreciation in advance!
Neil.

[emulator]

I like and use the Event 20/20 bas. Bi amped, 8" drivers, and great sound and adjustability.

Great sound, should be able to get them for $1800 ish..

Good review here:
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/article...256AE1000FA82A

[recur]

Check the following for more info:

http://www.inthemix.com.au/p/np/viewnews.php?id=11755
http://www.thescene.com.au/forum/vie...509&highlight=
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/article...a?OpenDocument
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/article...256C190080663A
http://www.acoustics101.com/
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/product/speak.asp

Steer clear of the Behringer gear if you can afford anything even slightly more.

Check the Alesis M1 Actives, Tannoy Reveals and KRK monitors for some lower end models likely to not be too much over the $1k you mentioned previously.

[wheel]

I have had truths for a few months now and think they are great. I got them impulse-buy style for $850 pair - you should be able to find them cheaper.

Behringer do not have a great rep for quality but in my situation I wanted an intermediate step between computer speakers and a $2000 pair... They do everything I wanted them to do. And they are so big and yummy!

[wheel]

btw... I listened to lots of different pairs, and thought I could tell the difference.

I bought in a cd of a few of my songs to play... On the truths it sounded awesome - way better than I thought it could... really clear and the bass was so defined.

Then we switched to a Genelec pair which were smaller than the truths, but several times the price (can't remember the model name)... Hit play... and instantly in one and a half beats I realised that I was using too much reverb on my snare drum - something I didn't hear with the truths... Overall it sounded clearer - warmer - better! I listened to the Yamaha MSRP10(?)s which were massive and sounded awesome too.

So bring in a cd of your own music that you know really well... that should let you hear the difference in quality. I vote truths though

[Dj Logik]

Dynaudio BM6a for great sound + price + even better sound
Mackie HR824 for Value and quality sound


Behringer truths - cheap, copy of Mackie 824 (but everything of theirs is a copy of a mackie thing )

[statik]

Quote:

Originally posted by wheel
Then we switched to a Genelec pair which were smaller than the truths, but several times the price (can't remember the model name)... Hit play... and instantly in one and a half beats I realised that I was using too much reverb on my snare drum - something I didn't hear with the truths...

moral to this story..

Buy the most expensive pair of genelecs you can afford, shit if you know the right places you can pick up a pair of 1030's new for $2300... Nuff said

[phunkdust]

the genelecs in the studio i'm using this week would make you cream your pants... not sure what model number they are but they use 12" bass drivers.

[Phibbler]

I too am in the same boat. so looking for some monitors <$1300

Some options are:

Berhinger truths
(apparently a little fatiguing and bad mid range)
tannoy reveals (passive)
(apparently bad bass response )
Alesis m1 mk2
(i know nothing about)
KRK v8
( apparently lacking in bass and with a harsh, almost shrill treble response. fatiguing and difficult to listen to.)

Anything else ? and does any one have reasons to hate these speakers?or any comments at all ?

I'm going to go listen them myself but i would like to know what type of things to listen to.

[mungo]

Monitors under $1000:

Yamaha NS10

[recur]

Quote:

Some options are:
Berhinger truths : (apparently a little fatiguing and bad mid range)
tannoy reveals (passive) : (apparently bad bass response )
Alesis m1 mk2 : (i know nothing about)
KRK v8 : ( apparently lacking in bass and with a harsh, almost shrill treble response. fatiguing and difficult to listen to.)

I'd agree on the comments on the KRK and the Behringers.

I wouldn't necessarily agree on the statement on the Reveal passives though. I've used these extensively and never had any concerns. The bass isn't over exagerated like on the Truths, and if you have a powerful enough amp (ie not a shitty stereo receiver, get a power amp) to drive them, I think you'll find the low end more than clear enough.

The Alesis M1 monitors are good solid units, but, at the end of the day, it all comes down to preference.

http://www.soundonsound.com/search?u... rch+Articles

Should offer a good start point for reading more...

[Hydra]

I have Event 20/20 bas, KRK V4's, and Emes Pink.

They are all good in dirfferent situations and It's hard for me to decide which ones I have to part with (having 3 sets of monitors is plain greedy)

the 20/20's are deffinately the most professional sounding, you can't fault their transparency and clarity.. the depth of sound that comes from these is incredible. Unfortunately these are the ones that are probably going to go simply for their size. ($1400 anyone)

KRK V4 are great cause they're so small.. deffinately doesn't have the bass of bigger monitors, but I've fully enjoyed working with them. and they crank.

The Emes Pink.. now these are are good monitor. Small size (only slightly bigger than the KRK's) but seem to have the right combination of clarity and transparency in the top and middle and a full rounded Bass end. esp when matched by the Emes Amber sub 8-)

[The Good Doctor]

Yamaha NS 10's are pretty much industry standard but are no longer made.

[oni0n]

Quested Q210 *cough*

[Jude May]

Quote:

Originally posted by mungo
Monitors under $1000:

Yamaha NS10

got a pair for sale? there rare as rocking horse.... you know what i mean

In the way of monitors to write and mix down on, nothing beats genelec. there pricey, but damn there good. behringers have an overly bassey feel to them, there not acurate enough for anything more than writing on.

if you dont want to fork out a packet on genelec, check the mackies




Jude

[egarim]

well obviously ive gone on about the Alesis M1 Active MKII's a little toooo much ... heh


why? well my enthusiasm comes from trialing over 10 monitors both in store listening areas and for 8 of them, in my home environment

why did i go the M1 MKII's?

well for under 1000 they devastated everything in their price range. by NO means do i think im some monitor expert, but i put the time and effort into listening and reading up and taking opinions and here i am, a satisfied customer. for a little over 900 i got the monitors AND a trolley rackmount unit so seriously, thats chump change.


the V6's: i cant explain why, but i didnt enjoy these one bit. i was playing Herbert's "leave me now" as one of my reference tracks because i like a part where a backing vocal has a gated reverb and i coudlnt hear it on the V6's as clear.

TRUTHS: i hate them. they were only good for the price, and have plonky bass that pales in comparison to....

M1 MKIIs: might be too bassy in your setup if you have a tiny room. clearer and sharper then the Truths by so much i laughed out loud. setting them up right is important though.

mackies: not worth the price, but i had no problems with them.

edirol digitals: cheap and nasty, good for producers who arent thinking about taking it too seriously (ie, no income from music) but thats about it

genelecs: if you have the cash, think about it. if not, then study them anyway as a good indicator of what cost/quality is all about.... then go back and spit on the Truths



as for NS10s.... get fucked. lets not open that can of worms, as every wannabe engineer/producer has a comment on them, funny considering how few eople have actually monitored on them for any REAL length of time these days in the dance music industry.

no WAY would you recommend to ANYONE to buy these now.



lastly, dont get caught up in the drama of monitors too much. its MORE important that you get your control room "right", as the best monitors are useless in a room with no consideration for your listening environment. likewise its important you get to KNOW your monitors really well, which isnt really a passive thing either, it slike homework/study/oral sex.... hard work but it pays off if you can be bothered.

[Jude May]

Quote:

Originally posted by egarim




as for NS10s.... get fucked. lets not open that can of worms, as every wannabe engineer/producer has a comment on them, funny considering how few eople have actually monitored on them for any REAL length of time these days in the dance music industry.

no WAY would you recommend to ANYONE to buy these now.

.

well would you like to explain why they are still in use in hundreds of studios around the world?

they are a "reference" monitor, similar to the aurotones. there not made for writing on, but checking how mixes will sound on an averege speaker. ohh, and i dont apreciate the wannabe comment.


Jude

[hpstekno]

ns10's became a default back in the day because there wasn't much else around at the time.. when something becomes a default everyone will want to have a pair so their mix should sound the same wherever they take it... doesn't mean they are good for accurate mixing... i have used them quite a bit (a mate used to have them in his studio i used to mixdown a bit in ) and i find them to be way too bright hence why most engineers throw tissue paper over the tweeters
and lacking severly in the bottom end... as jude says they are for checking how mixes would sound on the 'average listener'

i personally think they are absolute crap and wouldn't touch then with mungos hands....

quested dynaudio genelec are the monitors to look out for.....
but you pay the $$$

mackie are great also ...when shopping always take something close to what ur writing or your own music... shop sales ppl will always have some dodgey bette midler or carly simon cd to showcase on if ur making dnb thats not really going to translate well...

the tannoy actives are very good for the price as are the events
spirit absolute 4's are very nice also the only way to get the monitor to suit you is to do the above ...shop around as long as it takes

[Jude May]

ns10's became default because they sound like average hifi speakers. there were not that many brands of monitors as there are now, i agree. but back then not everyone with a computer was calling themselves a producer. monitors were used in real studios and were priced acordingly, and thus out of reach of all but those who actually needed them


Jude

[egarim]

jude, the wannabe common is general reference. like you said, everyone with a computer thinks they have an opinion worth listening to.

to those people i would say, get a few years in a commercial studio, a few more doing live sound and perhaps a degree, then talk to me.

failing that, at least have done your homework and approach the issue with an open mind and realise just because you read the latest shitty uk music mag, you arent an expert.


NS10s.... theres 100000 opinions on why they became standard issue, but lets be pragmatic, yamaha got lucky with what is indeed a horrible unit.

ask any experienced engineer (10 years plus in studio) and they will tell you its more to do with knowing your monitors then expecting them to help you make gold records.

NOW however, more then ANY time in history, we have more choices at insane prices.

so basically... dont settle for second best.

[mungo]

Quote:

got a pair for sale? there rare as rocking horse.... you know what i mean

I'd get a pair if I wasnt starting a business, I saw a pair go for $500 a while ago.

[horst]

there's a simple crossover fix for the NS-10 here
http://www.dillonacoustics.com/Louds...maha_XOYA1.htm


there's also a free design for a monitor same site
http://www.dillonacoustics.com/Louds...ude_system.htm
Component cost would top $1000 but what an amazing speaker that would be, the Hiquphon tweeters have a fantastic reputation.

[Jude May]

Quote:

Originally posted by egarim
jude, the wannabe common is general reference. like you said, everyone with a computer thinks they have an opinion worth listening to.

I asumed that wasnt directed only at me, but i been more than abit edgy of late. i have been working in live sound for about 5 years, doing the studio thing for 3. i know what i like and what works for me. the ns10's are my choice of reference monitors, pity i dont own a pair yet. no way in hell would i try write dnb on them, but thats a different story.

Jude

[pottsie]

just on monitors, while hey are probably out of the price range of the original poster, if you're interested in genelecs check out blue skys.

we got a set in at work at matched them up against our genelecs in the main mix room and the quality is superb. infact while they didn't quite compete in the top end, they definition and clarity of the bass out classed the genelecs sub totally

they come in a sweet 2.1 package now, and cost alot less than genelecs. check out the review in audio technology this month and listen to them before you get anything more expensive, they're are very very good for the price

[pottsie]

btw. i can't stand ns-10's. we have a set at work and i use them to prop up proper speakers. find them very dull yet hard edged.

Quote:

ask any experienced engineer (10 years plus in studio) and they will tell you its more to do with knowing your monitors then expecting them to help you make gold records

got to agree with that, its all about knowing you monitors where they colour, and the only way to get that is to check you mix on as many speakers as possible

[emulator]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydra
I have Event 20/20 bas, KRK V4's, and Emes Pink.

Hydr, do you find your Events get _really_ hot at the back when left on/used for 4+ hours? Has this ever been a problem for you? I'd like to see an external heat sink on these....

[Hydra]

Quote:

Originally posted by emulator
Hydra, do you find your Events get _really_ hot at the back when left on/used for 4+ hours? Has this ever been a problem for you? I'd like to see an external heat sink on these....

yes i do actually but i've never had any problem with it though. They don't get really hot though just a little. I sometimes have my monitors on for days too with no effect.

ahem.. btw I've got some stuff for sale in the correct forum if you hardware guys wanna have a look..

[Phibbler]

Unfortunately i couldn't afford the price tag Hydra was asking until they got sold, so

Where can i get me some of those nice Events?
They don't seem to be stocked at any of these websites

http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/sho...threadid=66467

[GrandPipe]

noticed someone mentioned Alesis M1 Active MKII on this thread.
Can anyone give me some more pro's/con's ? I'm going to pick some up for $850.
Searched the forum and people are talking them up. I think they should do a good job, but just wanted to get some opinions

[Phibbler]

Ok i found out why no one is answering my question about the events.

Turns out... events are generally old stock and the importer of events now imports something different ( krk i think) instead so any events wont be advertised , only sitting gathering dust in the back room.

I had a bit of a listen today to some alesis m1s and some truths.

Truths do sound pretty exciting in the bass region but the sound in the mids sounds scooped out.

THe alesis doesn't seem to go down as far as truths but the top and mids are nice and crisp.

THe truths are more fun to listen to, i must say, but that doesn't help any ones doing anything serious.

I think i might get some alesis m1 mk2's.

P.S.
The place i was listening to the m1's was selling them for $1499..
How out of touch is that?

[hpstekno]

i think turramurra has event 20/20's well they did last time i was in there

[Phibbler]

Turramurra doesn't seem to have them on their web site

However they do have some thing else

http://www.turramusic.com.au/product...inCategoryId=9

$549?!?!?!?! for a pair of Alesis m1 mk2

Gotta be a typo.

[Phibbler]

Eeek i just realised they arent the actives.. oops. oh well

[egarim]

Quote:

Originally posted by GrandPipe
noticed someone mentioned Alesis M1 Active MKII on this thread.
Can anyone give me some more pro's/con's ? I'm going to pick some up for $850.
Searched the forum and people are talking them up. I think they should do a good job, but just wanted to get some opinions

what would you like to know?

phibbler said he thought the bass didnt go as low on the MKII's then the Truths! i would contest this hotly, as i compared both in three different listening rooms, one my own control room, and the MKII's not only had a bigger bass presence but range and clarity.

with the MKII's however you might have to "plug a port" if you are going to put them up against a wall. this simply means putting some foam in one of the bass ports to make up for the fact they are bouncing bass off a wall. its all explained in the very nice manual.

they are also of a better build quality. obviously. i mean, behringer is behringer. look at phunkdust's thread about how a percentage of them blow up. thats not cool. they dont have cheesy switches on them like the Truths and annoying power switches underneath the unit, and they monitor nicely at 85dB which is the center option for level on the back of each.

you can pump them LOUD too. i noticed the V6's are the loudest of all i tried out but they made me want to run fingers down a chalk board.

in the end, youre looking at a quality monitoring solution for some nice big n heavy nearfield monitors made by a company that doesnt steal other companies designs *cough*

the fact that they used to be over 1500 and as a direct result of the importer doing some dealing with alesis they are now set at a price to eliminate the fucking cheese Truths and they are doing it well.

so in any case, whatever you feel will serve you best. trust your ears, not the lame marketing Truths use or the irrelevant spec sheets. certainly dont take MY word for it. im biased, i put my money where my mouth was on many occasions. good luck!

ps, i just remembered... the power supply/amp on the MKII's is awesome... ive used them straight for 72 hours and they stay cool as ice cream in an eskimo's boxer shorts.

[jimbo]

hey egarim

truuuuuuuuuuuths. TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTHS



TRUTHS!



BEHRINGER TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!


just joshin man. i love ya

[phunkdust]

truths are good


an egarim, put it in context. OK if the truth's PSU blew up because it was cheap shit, ok you'd have a point. But it's not cheap shit, it's an R&D error. You have to realise that it's a unit designed for 220V and here in aus the power can be up to 260V at any one time.

The fact that they've redesigned the PSU to account for this now is a testament to Behringer's quality of service. Of course they will replace your Truths for free if they are damaged, right there, on the spot.

It's an R&D error. They happen. Show me a product that doesn't have some sort of oversight in it's design. Everything does. The fact is, Truth's just were not designed for Australian power, they were designed for Euro power.

Note the number of sets of Truth's that are across the nation doing part-time party duty. They're built tonka tough. I've NEVER heard of anyone blowing up a Truth because they overworked it. They keep going and going.

You can't just judge monitors by giving them 10 minutes of listening time each. Every monitor will require a burn in session of several hours before your ears tune to them.

I've been using these big fuck off Genelecs worth like $10,000 for the pair, all last week and all this week, and you have to tune to them too. They have their faults also - they're too perfect. They lull you into a false sense of security - you have to account for that not everyone has 12" drivers as part of their setup.

Personally I'd rather be using Truth's because at least I'm comfortable with how they sound. I brought in my own home-made nearfields for one of the days and I was mixing better on my own speakers than the Genelecs.

The point is, you can't polish a turd. Monitors don't do the work for you - it's up to you to learn how the monitors sound then tune yourself to that then start mixing your sound based on what you know about the monitors.

So really, in the end, it's a personal preference to which sound you prefer. Some people like the Alesis because they're flat. I like Truth's because they have this big full sound - yeah they're a little rough in the top end but so are whitecones. Go figure, you gotta adjust to each monitor. I've used Tannoy Reveals and I just can't get used to them because of the lack of bass extension.

Use what feels comfortable to you, and your ears. Comparing price tags is not the way to purchase a monitor. In an ideal world, all monitors would just be blank, no brand names on them, and you'd choose your monitor by ear, not by face.

[GrandPipe]

cheers egarim, picked up a pair on the weekend and they're great. The mids are a little weaker then i'd like, but i'm thinking i just need to do a little more tuning.

Thanks for your post though, appreciated.

[Technogeekery]

Quote:

Originally posted by phunkdust


Use what feels comfortable to you, and your ears. Comparing price tags is not the way to purchase a monitor. In an ideal world, all monitors would just be blank, no brand names on them, and you'd choose your monitor by ear, not by face.

That sounds really sensible to me. All the critique here has been helpful, in that I realise that there is no right monitor for everyone - but I've got leads on 3-4 that sound like they could be fine, and I'll go and listen to them carefully and choose on that basis. Thanks for all your input guys.

[phunkdust]

just remember: just because it "sounds good" doesn't mean it's a good monitor. I have home made home theatre speakers here at home that can make anyone's track sound awesome, but they actually have a very coloured response. (Which of course suits DVDs, etc)

[Psyentist]

Quote:

Originally posted by djnelsy
Does anyone know what are the best studio monitors for their value?

I am about to buy myself some monitors and from the reviews I have read if I went out right now I would pick up the Behringer 'Truths' for about 1k the pair.

Does anyone have any tips to throw my way? Cuz when listening to each pair in the store it's seriously hard to distinguish the difference...

Appreciation in advance!
Neil.

Behringer make great monitors and other equipment for their price. I own a pair myself (got them for $800) and I swear by them.

You can get better quality monitors no doubt, but not for $800

[teknob]

Soorry but I disagree with the last comment.

Every piece of Behringer gear I've brought has been a regret. Their units are generally noisy, and some stuff has reliability problems. Hence I wouldn't rely on a Behringer product for something as important as monitors.

I use Tannoy Reveals Passives, and find them excellent. Certainly no lack of bass. It's not like you want it booming when writting. That just cause ear fatigue.

Some people I know use Alesis M1's.

Everything else is too expensive and serious for my application.

Teknob

www.chaosmusic.com/grimus+teknob

[Psyentist]

Quote:

Originally posted by teknob
Soorry but I disagree with the last comment.

Every piece of Behringer gear I've brought has been a regret. Their units are generally noisy, and some stuff has reliability problems. Hence I wouldn't rely on a Behringer product for something as important as monitors.

I own a pair of Behringer Truths and I love them. The sound is superior to a lot of monitors that are worth double the price and for $800 a matched pair, how can you go wrong?

I'm not saying that they're the best pair of monitors on the market, but for what I was willing to pay and for the quality I expected they've been brilliant.

[Technogeekery]

Allan's music (nationwide, I think) are getting in Alesis M1 Active MKII which they are pricing at the same price as the Behringer Truths - about $895 for the pair. I went in on the weekend to listen to monitors, and they strongly advised waiting until they came in (later this week) and then comparing the two - which I think I will do.

A question for all you experts - I'm not an expert mixer, and only expect to do this for fun - so probably anything in the $1000 range will do me fine as far as accuracy etc goes. But (and I know this is sacrilege) I also want to use them as good loud playback speakers for small parties at my house - so they must be able to play at high volume for hours without imploding. Is that completely stupid - are monitors just not built to do that? Or are some monitors robust enough to be cranked up loud on the weekend occasionally, and then used as normal monitors for the rest of the time? And if so, and recommendations, bearing this requirement in mind?

[mungo]

You can use monitors as party speakers, but they wont hve too much "fill" to them. They would only really be suited to a lounge room party.

[traction]

For what it's worth the Behringers are putting out a lot more wattage than the Alesis's... better for parties I guess, not necessarily better for bedroom production.

[Psyentist]

I mix in a fairly big loungeroom, and I like to mix loud as fuck, and I've never had my Behringers past 50% voulme.

[wheel]

I used the truths for a party for 70 people two weeks ago, and they worked great! It was scary how little signal I was giving them to get a good volume (with trim's on default). I was using a DJM300 and the master volume was never over 3 green bars .

I also play keyboard in a band and I am going to try them out instead what I use now which is a massive keyboard amp. Main reason for doing so is so I can be in sweet sweet stereo. If they are good enough then I'll be laughing!

Thats why I got em... They were so big and I could think of lots of good extra uses instead of just monitoring. Plus I have a noisy computer, a non-symmetrically dampened room, a cheap sound card etc etc... One step at a time.

[Technogeekery]

Cool - thanks for that. Bought a pair of Alesis M1 Mk II's yesterday - the Behringers sound great for playback / parties, but too warm & bassy for mixing on, to my taste . And I've only got a small house, and will mainly be using them for mixing - so thought I'd rather go with the Alesis, given that they were both the same price.

Cheers to everyone for advice & help

[chrisb_]

Yes I do need monitors and yes this budget is for me

Uni + social life = not alot of money so even 1k is alot fo me.

anyhoo

the truths - I considered but i've been told to steeer clear by alot of ppl -

alesis - 1500 was outta my range but considering the price drop i may consider - now - allans u say?

m-audio? bx-5? bx-8? theyre kinda in my range too - anyone know? ive heard they a bit bright and harsh in the mids - well thats the sp-5bs - which are now being packed as "ego-sys" nEar-05s so i've heard - mabye the more recent studio philes are better?

tannoy reveal - nice nice so i've heard - but actives are 1700..

--

just say i do get a set of passives - whats the importance of amp quality? can i really affect how true the monitors perform?

anyway - very helpful - i know this is a late post but hey needs to be said.

cheers!!

//chris

[Technogeekery]

Yep, Allans, they were getting 25 of the Alesis speakers each around the country at <$900. Although I ended up getting mine at Intermusic in Bondi Junction because i was int he neighbourhood, and they matched the price.

If you buy passives, your amplifier is then very important, of course - I think its very hard to beat the balance of amps buit specirfically for each speaker (and in fact, for each driver in each speaker). It can be done, but you'll need to spend good money on an amp too, so don't think you'lsave much money - and you have one more box of gear...