BDO death: sniffer dogs to blame?

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Following the tragic death of Perth teen Gemma Thoms (pictured) after her collapse at the final date of the 2009 Big Day Out on Sunday February 1st, media attention of the issue has raged on with many looking to point the finger of blame surrounding the circumstances of the 17-year-old’s passing.

Reports on exactly what Gemma took and how much have varied (some say it was one before she arrived and another as she was in line to enter, but others have said it was up to three at once), however friends of the girl have gone on record telling authorities she consumed a number of pills – which they believed to be ecstasy – after panicking she’d be caught by sniffer dogs.

Police have countered this claim as it’s reported she was dropped at the festival by her mother, thereby avoiding the sniffer dogs which were positioned at the nearby Claremont train station. Authorities believe that it was the extreme heat on Sunday that would have attributed to Gemma’s collapse. “There were a whole pile of people. She entered the venue. It was all too much for her. About an hour later she just collapsed,” a police spokeswoman told AAP. “If you don’t get enough fluids into you, your body just shuts down.”

Slyvia Hale, a NSW Greens MP who has been campaigning against the use of sniffer dogs for several years, spoke out yesterday following the weekend’s heartbreaking incident. Citing a 2006 report by the NSW Ombudsman that established the ineffectiveness of drug dogs, she remarked to AAP; “That report concluded that not only were they ineffective, but they are likely to result in harm when young people panic and swallow drugs and this appears to have happened in Western Australia.”

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Matthew de Groot

Matthew de Groot said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Well said Slyvia, it's good to know we have an MP behind us.

Thea06

Thea06 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

but will deaths be limited if there are no dogs? won't this just be more easy to get drugs into a festival?

UberPwnage

UberPwnage said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Where were her friends? Why didn't they look after her after she decided to dump a whole bunch of pills? If that was my friend I would take her straight to the first aid tent and tell them what happened...............

big_ass_shabang

big_ass_shabang said on the 4th Feb, 2009

The sniffer dogs are there to prevent illegal activities. Listen to the stupid Greens MP and have drug dealers bringing 100's of pills etc. into festivals and see a lot more drug related incidents. It's a tragedy this girl died but it was preventable, not

Spiro De Fiero

Spiro De Fiero said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Yes and No. No offence to the girl or her freinds, but the dogs are as much to blame as inexperience is. My first 2tribes I freaked out when I saw the cops and nearly swallowed all my stash... That said, I find it very hard to believe that MDMA cause

Spekman

Spekman said on the 4th Feb, 2009

i reckon would have been something else in the pills that shouldn't have.... plus overheating and dehydration.. sniffers are pretty useless though, the amount of ppl they actually catch compared to how many go there is pathetic... if ppl wanna do it they

ar-bee

ar-bee said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Harm Minimalization. Enough Said.

Chewy79

Chewy79 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Sniffer dogs are NOT to blame. Gemma is to blame because SHE is the one who took the drugs! Did people suddenly forget that ecstacy pills are illegal? She should have thrown the pills away when she saw the dogs not eat them all! If the dogs forced her to

Thea06

Thea06 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

i take drugs into festivals, yet saving peoples lives is alot more important to me then getting my drugs in there. i know it has been said millions of times but education on the drugs may have helped with the prevention of his girls death. kids these da

write my name

write my name said on the 4th Feb, 2009

RIP Gemma. I know not of you, but wish your family and friends all my sympathies. It once again highlights the problems which sniffer dogs cause at events. Yes, drugs are illegal. Yes, people need to take responsibility for what is going into the

Brad Lee

Brad Lee said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I dont think its fair to put the blame on the Police (dogs) . She is the one that took the drugs and should know how her body reacts before tripple dumping pills. Sure blame the heat blame dehydration blame the police..At the end of the day somebody ended

FIGJAMProductions87

FIGJAMProductions87 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

It is extremely sad and upsetting for someone to lose a life. Especially at such a young age. With that said, it is extremely inaccurate to place blame on an animal and a community group (police) for doing their duty. Sniffer dogs are trained to find d

brenly

brenly said on the 4th Feb, 2009

You would need to take a ridiculous amount of mdma (actual ecstasy) to overdose. That being said, it's so rare to find pure mdma pills. The pills majority of people get are mixed with a numerous amount of other shit. It's cheaper for the guys that make it

campbellt

campbellt said on the 4th Feb, 2009

She new the risks involved in taking drugs so there for if it backfire in your face you have no one to blame except yourself....If you can't handle it don't f**k'n do it, it's as simple as that! Police weren't at fault at all...She's an irresponsible teen

yani_s

yani_s said on the 4th Feb, 2009

This is always gonna happen once in a while. Funny how this is a huge deal when smoking kills like 100 people a day

Azael

Azael said on the 4th Feb, 2009

This is similar to what happened at the "Last" kryal castle rave, because of the sniffer dogs (my opinion) people did what' Gemma did and took their stash instead of throwing it over their shoulder for fear of being caught. There was WAAAAAAAAYYYY mor

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 4th Feb, 2009

she was only 17.. it's a bit harsh to say she was to blame. She made a split second decision, and it's easy for us to say in retrospect that it was the wrong decision, but I know lots of people who would have done the same thing, and if they'd survived, i

stu_jacks88

stu_jacks88 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

HARM MINIMIZATION!!!! This is the only way to go. Nod to Ar-bee.

Weqster

Weqster said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Some facts, cause there is way too many opinions and speculation in this thread. * A single drug conviction can ruin a persons life. Family/work/mentally. One pill. One pill out of thw two-hundred-thousand-a-week habit this country has. * Drug dogs/

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 4th Feb, 2009

correction - if the dogs weren't there she *may* still be alive

pEAkeR_hAT

pEAkeR_hAT said on the 4th Feb, 2009

probably PMA or BZP nuff said

jenna0710

jenna0710 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

My deepest sympathies go out to Gemma's friends and family. As an avid festival-goer it is common knowledge that 90% of festival-goers take some sort of drug at a festival. Whether is illegal or not, it happens every time. Although sniffer dogs definitely

crackthatback

crackthatback said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I am impressed and amazed at the comments on this page and the linked page for the original article related to the death of this girl. I feel for the family, but it was irresponsible to dump her pills (if that were the cause of her death) when she could h

The3rdPlumpDj

The3rdPlumpDj said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Posted on the other thread, but reitterating my point >> My condolences to the family of the young girl… Police action is squarely to blame here… Why not bolster police presence at these gigs only to confiscate illicit drugs and not apprehend peopleâ€

marisa jade

marisa jade said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I think it's disgusting you anyone could say "oh great, now she's made it harder for the rest of us" or "It's her own fault".... HAVE SOME HEART. THATS DISGUSTING TO SAY THAT. Say it to to your friends, not in an open forum like this

dyldogs

dyldogs said on the 4th Feb, 2009

how bout dont take drugs?

s2n-mikey

s2n-mikey said on the 4th Feb, 2009

If people are aware sniffer dogs will no longer be at events, they will be trying to take lots of pills etc in. Thats what would make things worse

xokatieox

xokatieox said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Self inflicted. Whats worse dying or getting arrested?

barkus

barkus said on the 4th Feb, 2009

abso-farkin-lutely - sniffer dogs are not harm minimisation. they have a place - but in this context, the application has failed Ravesafe have suggested this was waiting to happen....and here you have it. we're not talking about a "logical" decision

barkus

barkus said on the 4th Feb, 2009

this issue was raised in 2003 and 2004 - ok i was ranting a bit in this forum - but check this http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=91156

Spekman

Spekman said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Weqster hit all the nails on the head

walkdogz

walkdogz said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Dogs serve no purpose other than to proliferate an already ubiquitous societal/legal message and value which most young people are very well aware of but just don't care about; whilst at the same time encouraging dangerous behaviour and decisions such as

Lil_Muscles21

Lil_Muscles21 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I feel sorry for the girls family the most - it is so scary to think KIDS which she was a kid are taking such substances like this! when i was her age i was so scared of drugs like ecstacy and meth the thought never crossed my mind - underagers are growin

hyperdrunk83

hyperdrunk83 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I get the feeling there's mostly Eastern Staters around here... What you guys don't know is that we never had sniffer dogs at events until Barney got in. This is maybe the 3rd event that sniffer dogs have been used. That there's a death so soon sends a g

LUCAS BUTLER

LUCAS BUTLER said on the 4th Feb, 2009

It's al speculation and hearsay, how about everyone shuts up until we get the autopsy report?

brenly

brenly said on the 4th Feb, 2009

campbellt... deadset... you are probably the loneliest person in the world. do you have friends? does ANYONE like you?? do everyone on these forums a favour and shut the fk up.

inthemixer19

inthemixer19 said on the 4th Feb, 2009

how do you view all the comments?

funkytom

funkytom said on the 4th Feb, 2009

Are you guys crazy. Of course blame the police, but most of all blame the government for making them illegal and giving the police a mandate of catching all these people. If it was all regulated there would be so much more education, no reason for sniffer

Dwayne

Dwayne said on the 4th Feb, 2009

It is always sad when a young life is lost.....my sympathies go out the Gemma's family and friends. But this could have been avoided. Sniffer dogs are not the answer. Education is....educate people on the dangers and offer more help, not make people feel

little_nicki

little_nicki said on the 4th Feb, 2009

I truly do not believe that the dogs used at festivals can even smell anything, certainly not the 3 or 4 pills carefully hidden in the clothes of the average festival punter. The dogs are just an excuse for cops to search people at random because 'oh the

Emzz

Emzz said on the 4th Feb, 2009

To hear about such a young and gorgeous girl dying is devasting- however, i do not agree with what she was doing. I'm pretty sure it is a commonly known fact that illicit drugs are illegal for a reason. and therefore by taking them, just as jenna 0710 sai

dirtsettlers

dirtsettlers said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Why don't the police take their sniffer dogs on patrol to every house in Australia. What a stupid waste of tax payers money, like they are going to catch the 'mr bigs' of the drug business. What individuals do in their time is their business, not the poli

insert funny name

insert funny name said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Firstly my heart does go out to the family as they are the only innocent people in this story. Do sniffer dogs perform their part and are they affective? I think so! But are they stopping people from taking drugs into festival cause these people are t

jabtez

jabtez said on the 5th Feb, 2009

My condolences for her family and friends. But funkytom and weqster have the right ideas. Something has to change people are always gonna do drugs wether they are illegal or not (remember alcohol and cigarettes are drugs too and kill alot more people ever

bluepeople

bluepeople said on the 5th Feb, 2009

blaming sniffer dogs, blaming the girl, blaming the heat, blaming her friends, blaming festivals. F@$kheads. blame drugs. its simple. there f@%king drugs. there pathetic. blame the drug dealers and blame the people who let them in. blame celebrritys that

Lex_d

Lex_d said on the 5th Feb, 2009

definitely a tragic event. however education is the key to preventing something like this again. you don't down 3 pills in searing heat at the sight of a couple of dogs, if you know what the unfortunate result is going to be. Sniffer dogs are still need

annie_346

annie_346 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Its extremely sad, especially since she was only 17 she would of been cautioned and would not of even had a criminal record when she turned 18. I was busted at a festival once and learnt its better to ditch it then hang onto it. Dogs arent to blame, you

yummyburger

yummyburger said on the 5th Feb, 2009

If only we lived in a perfect world?? My opinion is that Police should target dealers, not users. The police are doing their job, they are there to protect us, and the people are there to party and have fun... SO...We all know what police do? They enforc

Thea06

Thea06 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

drugs are illegal. how can we blame the dogs for doing something they were trained to do? also the police. no matter what people are going to take drugs into festivals but it IS illegal?? i cant get my head around people saying if there were no dogs th

smashedrabbit

smashedrabbit said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Sniffer dogs can be effective, yet they have a large hit and miss factor. They are a precutionary measure and something that is SUPPOSED to deter people from bringing drugs to public events. I think the girl would've had the intention of having a number o

Gunnerzz

Gunnerzz said on the 5th Feb, 2009

At a recent event one of my mates got caught with a stash. We saw the sniffer dogs approach us and our first feeling was to panic. We all went separate ways and the dogs went up to all of us. Me and my mates were clear, but the other guy got caught.

ganoush

ganoush said on the 5th Feb, 2009

this is a tricky one. On one hand you have the cause behind her taking the drugs all at once the dogs... but that said i don't think they are to blame. I say this because they are used as a preventative, a very small ineffective preventative but one none

Hardstyler_Shore

Hardstyler_Shore said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Such a shame that a young party goer has past away under these circumstances. Truth is that dogs do scare people in dropping all their gear at the door. A number of times i have been to a festival we have seen dogs and finished off our stash, making the n

gracearcasm

gracearcasm said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Whatevs, one less pill-popped munted idiot to annoy festival goers. With a but of luck, maybe her death will put people off doing stupid things like taking illegal pills, or at least from smuggling them into festivals. As sad as it is that a child died, i

threedayfast

threedayfast said on the 5th Feb, 2009

I realize everyone says it, but more money and thought should be put into having extra first aiders at events. Festivals should be looked after by who ever is running them, not police. Yes, there are instances where police are needed, but until then aren'

tamz06

tamz06 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

suddenly one person's death is a big deal... yes it is a tragedy and could have been prevented but i do agree with alot of the comments. i agree sniffer dogs are useless.. me and a few of my mates were targeted by sniffers recently but we were lucky not

barkus

barkus said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Gunnerzz says... but if people are educated that the police aren't out to find the casual users, but the actual dealers (the police told us they found some guy with 3000 pills on him) then it may have saved the young girls life. My mate is happy with wh

GeeKay1

GeeKay1 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

My condolences go to Gemma's family and friends. This should never have happened, especially to one so young. I don't blame the police, or sniffer dogs, or even her own actions. At the age of 17 it's very hard to know what your own limits are and the lac

serj-thyy-mad

serj-thyy-mad said on the 5th Feb, 2009

spastic kiddies not knowing what they're getting into. eat a couple of pingas and fry, then go do it in the sun.. yer sure GREAT idea! education is the key to this prevention. 2nd.. i agree the dogs are useless. the dealers are going to get through regar

BigBastard

BigBastard said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Cops preventing drugs is not the issue, it is preventative measure. People taking drugs is an issue, it's simple, do not take drugs! How many reports/research has been completed proving the negative effects of drugs? Go out and enjoy your day, if you need

merck_bends

merck_bends said on the 5th Feb, 2009

I can't believe you scrolled all the way through these comments. get back to work!

Emina

Emina said on the 5th Feb, 2009

You've got to be kidding me! Were the police and sniffer dogs to blame? YES!!!! Of course it was the sniffer dogs which caused Gemma to take all her pills at once and therrefore put her life at risk. Police should spend their time and resources elsewhe

Hardstyler_Shore

Hardstyler_Shore said on the 5th Feb, 2009

taking drugs is part of festival life.. too whoever said go to an event and feel your "natural high". Load of crap. As sad as it may seem 9/10 people at events will use drugs, the problem now is provide a safe environment for the user, rather than simply

Bronson23

Bronson23 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

I don't understand how everyone is blamin' the sniffer dogs

Peace

Peace said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Dogs at festivals do nothing, they do not catch DEALERS... they just catch runners or some poor kid that wants to make a few bucks but cant foresee the consequenses of what WILL happen if he gets caught with 20-100 pills on him. So this silly fella ge

tranceboy2009

tranceboy2009 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

omg people keep making excuses and blaming this or that ... but has everyone forgotten that she took the drugs , the dogs or the police didnt hold her down and force her to take them .... she got the drugs she knowingly took them and only has herself to b

Max2005

Max2005 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

You take drugs, you take risks. ALL opportunities to deter people from taking drugs to an event need to be employed. This will ensure that people dumb enough to continue to take pills when they dont exactly know whats in them, may just be smart enough to

Stevezoid

Stevezoid said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Ok so people are still going to take the gear into the festivals. How many drug dogs were at the BDO? did they target every gate? and were they just at the train station? Sounds to me like people will just avoid public transport to get there gear into the

bonza7

bonza7 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

These people saying that the cops need to concentrate on the big dealers are wankers. There's no doubt the cops are trying to chase the dealers. Chances are, you get busted and they will ask where you got them in a bid to track back up the levels of distr

tazza89

tazza89 said on the 5th Feb, 2009

the dogs do nothing..... when youngsters are heading out for fun, they're going to do whatever they wish... the "scare" of being caught by sniffer dogs as alledged in this case, is due to lack of experience with experimental intake of illicit substances.

natchloe

natchloe said on the 5th Feb, 2009

Seriously hello! My sympathy goes out to her family, however she had ILLEGAL DRUGS on her and all I can say is at least they are gone and not sold to other people's innocent yet stupid kids who take them. Lucky we are not in other foreign countries or we

scottweeks

scottweeks said on the 5th Feb, 2009

At the end of the day at 17 this girl knew what she was doing. She decided to obtain something illegal and she paid the ultimate price that any youngster could. It's a shame her family has to go through this unfortunate time, i know and many of you out th

Samouris

Samouris said on the 6th Feb, 2009

1ST of all.... who the hell is "big_ass_shabang"and what noncense are you speaking?? i myself do not use and absolutly love these events, but the base of these events where founded upon back somewhat 10-15years ago on the "trip feeling" of drugs!!! a SUBS

muppetface

muppetface said on the 6th Feb, 2009

Very sad incident, but police are not to blame in instigating it. The police and dogs are there to catch those who are taking more then personal use in, are there to sell, and I think thats a good thing if that can be prevented. If dogs are not present, i

rx8chick

rx8chick said on the 8th Feb, 2009

Slyvia is 100% on the mark... the dealers they want to catch are way to smart to be anywhere near where sniffer dogs will be used... all they are doing is putting lives like Gemma's at risk when young ppl panic... Cops have no idea.. they should THINK a

SLIDINGDOORS

SLIDINGDOORS said on the 16th Feb, 2009

I have been banging on about this for years - the police are fighting a losing battle. i am also quite certain that if the government knew how to tax "illegal drugs" then it would. after all, it is legal to smoke yourself into a ball of lung cancer, drink